Why Does It Feel Like Poor Play Is Acceptable (I'm Venting.)

[Miste]

Could have been someone who just sucks at tanking. And before you spout off "It's the easiest class to play!" it really is not for some people, myself included, hence I refuse to tank in this game because the same issues may occur that you just described and I don't want to do that to other people lol. But I agree with Winsock that its not always lazy play, maybe the player just sucks at tanking.

I never tell other people what jobs are easy because it depends on the person, but, my example just mentions simply holding hate.

You need one single button to hold AoE hate on PLD. Flash. Are you claiming pressing Flash even once was "too hard" for that level 65 PLD I had? "Maybe the player just sucks at tanking" so they cannot use Flash even once because it is too hard for them?

Or the actual more plausible possibility that they simply were too lazy to read the tooltip for Flash so they don't know what it does and/or was just too lazy to bother worrying about keeping hate and was watching Netflix.

You are basically just ignoring the more plausible explanations for extreme outliers. How did they get PLD to 65, DRK to 70 and multiple other jobs, or even get by the character creator if they were incapable of pressing one button?

[AphraelAmarantha]

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You are oversimplifying though. It's not just hit 1-2-3. You have to also deal with how large a group of mobs are, you have to make sure they are facing the correct direction when maintaining aggro, you have to deal with the occasional aoe requiring you to move, you have to make sure your hotbar is set up correctly so you can use those skills efficiently, you have to actually know what those skills do, you have to understand what the tool tip is telling you and so on. It's not just 1-2-3. For people like me, it can just be too much.

I am not saying that lazy play doesn't happen. However to think that bad players are ONLY just lazy players is a bad generalization and discredits the claim. It's like saying "Some of these apples have worms in them so ALL apples must have worms in it." It's faulty logic and doesn't support the claim. There may be more factors going on then what appears on your screen.

[ko_]

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I'm just here gecause I'm loving your character design and your picture profile in your sig. - BIG HUGZ- ok.. I'm done.

[AphraelAmarantha]

I'm just here gecause I'm loving your character design and your picture profile in your sig. - BIG HUGZ- ok.. I'm done.

Thanks a lot! :3

[Miste]

You are oversimplifying though. It's not just hit 1-2-3.

No I am not, the example I used the PLD never used Flash. That was the reason they couldn't hold AoE hate. I am not talking about the combo. So it is literally they couldn't press one button to make sure the healer and DPS weren't tanking the other 2 mobs out of a 3 mob pull. They had the competence to understand the 1-2-3 combo yet couldn't manage to use Flash once?

The question is how did they not know how to use Flash at level 65? Laziness. You learn Flash at level 6 and whose fault is it that they don't know how to use it? The only one to blame is themselves.

They didn't read the tooltip or practice it during those 59 levels to see what it does? No.
If they read the tooltip but didn't understand it did they not even or ask fellow players for help on what it does and/or use it in dungeons just to test it? No.
Did they not look up a PLD guide to help themselves if they didn't understand the tooltip? No.
When they pull trash packs and realize the 2/3 of the mobs are attacking the healer or DPS did they wonder why and seek out help? No.
I politely suggested they use Flash halfway through the dungeon so they wouldn't lose hate on the mobs did they think about using it? No, they ignored me.

All of that is their own fault.

You have to also deal with how large a group of mobs are, you have to make sure they are facing the correct direction when maintaining aggro, you have to deal with the occasional aoe requiring you to move,

You're adding things to my expectations that aren't there. I said in my post I am only talking about simply holding hate on 3 mobs as an example from what I personally saw this level 65 PLD do. I am talking the lowest tanking expectation of just holding hate and that alone. I don't care if they positioned wrong, or got hit by a few telegraphs.. Although I am being generous considering their resume of 70 jobs including DRK which means they should have a tanking basis.

I am not saying that lazy play doesn't happen. However to think that bad players are ONLY just lazy players is a bad generalization and discredits the claim.

Yeah...and where did I say all bad play is laziness? All I said was sometimes you can definitely see if laziness is a factor.

I was responding to someone who was actually making a bad generalization of the opposite? Claiming that you can never tell if someone is being lazy and they are all simply "new" or "just don't know".

The fact is that "not knowing" certain basics by certain levels in this game like a tank not knowing how to use AoE enmity Flash/Unleash, by level 60+ means they are highly likely being lazy and if they don't want to be lazy then maybe they should get off their butt and actually try to help themselves by quickly reading tooltips, quickly skim a job guide for a few mins, or ask fellow players for help who have the job leveled.


PS. What did you do to the quote thing lol my quote has a picture of a male lalafell which I've never played one before ever yet my name is beside it? If I hover over it it says it is a poster named "Len" O.o

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

You are oversimplifying though. It's not just hit 1-2-3. You have to also deal with how large a group of mobs are, you have to make sure they are facing the correct direction when maintaining aggro, you have to deal with the occasional aoe requiring you to move, you have to make sure your hotbar is set up correctly so you can use those skills efficiently, you have to actually know what those skills do, you have to understand what the tool tip is telling you and so on. It's not just 1-2-3. For people like me, it can just be too much.

For a tank, all of this can, and should be understood well before 50. Hell, much of it should be learned before Brayflox, and if not, Brayflox is designed to make you learn it. As for hotbars, some might call it work, but I call it my own personal QoL to be mindful of these things in my own downtime. That's not to say I haven't made hotbar edits in an instance before, but I can never claim mistakes or poor performance was due to not having things set up properly, or knowing what is where.

Fact is, the people that make those proper steps to be prepared and make effort to perform well almost always do. The same cannot be said for those that don't.

[Jijifli]

Could have been someone who just sucks at tanking. And before you spout off "It's the easiest class to play!" it really is not for some people, myself included, hence I refuse to tank in this game because the same issues may occur that you just described and I don't want to do that to other people lol. But I agree with Winsock that its not always lazy play, maybe the player just sucks at tanking.

In the example that you quoted, it is a player, that has managed to reach towards the end of the game, that fails to understand that basic concept of his role. If he is a tank, he has to hold threat. If he can't do that by level 65, he shouldn't be playing tank. To even begin with, let's assume he job boosted. He still had to go a minimum of 5 levels of this, and I personally doubt they were grinding open world monsters or fates, otherwise they'd still be doing it rather than showing up to a dungeon. This means he managed to get taken through multiple levels, as a terrible tank that can't hold more than 1 target. This is where part of my issue was.

It's not even just players failing to press the most basic of buttons (How do you not know flash?) It's also that we gotta take them by the hand, carry them through, make them feel like they know what they're doing when they clearly don't. Honestly, I'd rather have a tank that has threat on everything and gets hit by everything. Things don't hit hard enough, but the point would be that the damage is focused on the person that can take it. Wanna know what's not fun? WHM tanking. MCH tanking. NIN tanking (This is after Shadewalker on them... please.)

[HyoMinPark]

Could have been someone who just sucks at tanking. And before you spout off "It's the easiest class to play!" it really is not for some people, myself included, hence I refuse to tank in this game because the same issues may occur that you just described and I don't want to do that to other people lol. But I agree with Winsock that its not always lazy play, maybe the player just sucks at tanking.

Then, if they suck, they should try to get better. If they refuse to get better, or just can’t, then they should probably not tank.

To be frank, the refusing to improve/get better at a job or role is the same thing as lazy play. It’s bad AND lazy play on the behalf of that player.

[Ursa_Vonfiebryd]

I just got through a Snowcloak that I joined in towards the end, with 45 minutes in.

The time elapse alone would have told me something was seriously wrong. But I've timed out in the Aery before, with a PIP que, so... *shrugs* I suppose this is why FCs were created but unfortunately, proper training doesn't seem to be big on their overall agenda. Honestly, the best advise I've ever gotten has been from exasperated people in instanced duties, so your advice might actually be working--just not at the time you gave it. Don't give up tho.

[Anienai]

Thanks a lot! :3

I second your awesomeness.