Could we get a change to Hyoton (PvE)?

[Kabooa]

Try this:

Hyoton: Deals ice damage to the target with a potency of 140
Additional Effect: Bind
Duratiin: 15s
Additional Effect: Inflicts target with Hyoton
Duration: 10s

Assassinate: Delivers an attack with a potency of 200
Can only be executed when target's HP is below 20%
Additional effect: Deals critical damage if target is inflicted with Hyoton.

You get 220 more potency by just using Raiton, which is 100 more than the +120 from guaranteed Crit on Assassinate, which can still crit independently.

[Eloah]

You get 220 more potency by just using Raiton, which is 100 more than the +120 from guaranteed Crit on Assassinate, which can still crit independently.

There would have to be some kind of adjustments, but the concept isn't bad. This thread is to find a use for Hyoton, and potency aside, this gives it a solid use without breaking or undermining their other tools. The skill doesn't have to be Assassinate, that was just the skill that seemed to make the most sense to me. It's just another way of looking at this issue, maybe Hyoton doesn't "need" a change, maybe another skill needs to change to make use of Hyoton. Similar to Trick Attack and Suiton.

[KasaiTaiyome]

[...]Try this:

Hyoton: Deals ice damage to the target with a potency of 140
Additional Effect: Bind
Duratiin: 15s
Additional Effect: Inflicts target with Hyoton
Duration: 10s

Assassinate: Delivers an attack with a potency of 200
Can only be executed when target's HP is below 20%
Additional effect: Deals critical damage if target is inflicted with Hyoton.

This is an interesting way to look at it actually. Hyoton being able to buff another ability in the same way suiton does is not that far off.

How about we turn things around though? What if Hyoton has a different effect, or simply deals more damage under specific circumstances? To go with your Assasinate example:

Hyoton: Deals ice damage to the target with a potency of 140
If the target's health is at 20% or less: potency 380

Not very creative, sure, but: This is basically a second excute ability (in addition to Assasinate) to finish trash mobs and to increase DPS against bosses. The condition prevents it from completely replacing Raiton, but does considerably increase its usefulness. It is also just an example for... an example. But maybe improving the effect of Hyoton under specific circumstances is a good direction to explore.

Of course Hyoton improving another ability, like you suggested, is perfectly in line with what we have now and therefore likely very intuitive.

[RenOkamiya]

Hyoton: Deals ice damage to the target with a potency of 140
If the target's health is at 20% or less: potency 380

It wouldn't change anything since compared to raiton it's not that much higher potency wise. You would go for Fuma anyway if you are not under Kassatsu no matter the % of the boss's life because of : 2 mudras instead of 1.

[Vshunyi]

Maybe Hyoton doesn't really need a total rework, just change Bind into a more useful effect and actually have encounters that need some form of crowd control. They could do something like so:
1. Change bind so that it doesn't get removed upon receiving damage and actually have adds be affected by them.
2. Change bind into heavy/stun/silence, which have seen some use in older encounters, so it's not unthinkable that it'll come up in future content.

If they do make the CC useful, the potency would actually need to be increased a bit to similar levels of fuma/raiton since ninjutsu is such a big part of NIN dps. Otherwise the CC job will just go to the BRD/MCH since they have role skills for it and thus incur minimal DPS loss (or no DPS loss if it doesn't affect their rotation), and even if it's useful, Hyoton won't get any use.

[Eloah]

snip

Actually what you say has some weight. They could make it like One Ilm Punch. Only in this case the Bind cannot be removed. Or they could make it that the target will always be bpund, but the first option seems better.

[Joe777]

Hyoton has its uses, but they are so rarely needed that it is potentially useless. If I had to give it a different purpose though I'd say make Hyoton a buff that applies to the user when it hits an enemy that increases the potency of the user's Throwing Dagger for the duration. 10s should be fine I suppose. Reason: Throwing Dagger really needs some love. People may think that making it buff Throwing Dagger is useless too, but you still have to consider the fact that Ninja isn't in a bad spot atm and buffing it would only call for a nerf on something else of theirs.

[KasaiTaiyome]

[...]you still have to consider the fact that Ninja isn't in a bad spot atm and buffing it would only call for a nerf on something else of theirs.

While this is absolutely true, again I'd like to stress the fact that Hyoton has been part of the Job for as long as it exists. Through two expansions, Hyoton has not been touched at all. Ninja is, in my humble oppinion, in a good spot right now but it should have gotten there by also getting a quality of life change to Hyoton and not solely by getting new abilities.

[...]You would go for Fuma anyway if you are not under Kassatsu no matter the % of the boss's life because of : 2 mudras instead of 1.

I have to admit that I don't understand. I can see how one might want to use Fuma Shuriken instead of Raiton because the former can benefit from the slashing debuff while the latter can't, but what does the number of Mudra have to do with it?

[RenOkamiya]

I have to admit that I don't understand. I can see how one might want to use Fuma Shuriken instead of Raiton because the former can benefit from the slashing debuff while the latter can't, but what does the number of Mudra have to do with it?

It's because of cliping the GCD that you always go Fuma instead of Raiton unless you have Kassatsu up, or you can't be in melee range when you use your jutsu, which in this case you can use Raiton as well since it doesn't clip anything.

It's basically 2 vs 3 button press.

Plus the latency problem some people in the US seems to have. I don't have any issues in France but still use Fuma because it's a faster oGCD and doesn't mess with the rotation.

[Sylvain]

Reworking Hyoton as a stun/silence etc isn't hard indeed, but that mean they'd need to make more fight requiring stun / silence. Tanks already have access to tool to ensure they can interrupt once every half a min. Which means that unless you'd need more stuns, Hyoton inteerrupt wouldn't be needed, and if it would be needed, then NIN would become even better than it already is.



The idea of making Hyoton buff Assassination is not bad but again, you just introduce yet another thing to the main rotation. Which is a bit sad imo as any spare skill could be used to fix issue. NIN dps (considering the buff they bring) is fine, giving them more damage in their main rotation isn't particulary needed.

But people have pointed that they do have a weakness, like all melee, they can't attack out of melee range. Which is why many people argued about the DoT, the issue with the DoT is that it makes it again part of the main rotation (which is something I'm against, every single skill doesn't have to be part of the main rotation, it's fine to have situational skills).

Hence my suggestion with the Frosty Throw Daguers. Many fight (if not all) would benefit from it, it could probably grant more potency than the assassinate idea in many fight and unlike the DoT or Assassination suggestion which would just make the skill part of the core rotation (so you simply do it whenever the DoT fades / Said skill is up, no more thought involved), this one would actually require some knowledge of the fight and if used properly make the skill more satisfactory than yet another skill dishing huge number once a min. (see Dream within a Dream for boring skills ***boring doesn't mean weak***)