SE: if it aint broke, dont fix it (War)

[Claire_Pendragon]

The only thing I don't like about WAR is Overpower. It's a cone aoe, I find it harder to use than Unleash or Flash. I hope they change it.

*shrug* the cone style is what made me like WAR initially.
(I like having AoEs of differing shapes based on class/job)

But I think the TP cost is the "bigger" deal, as it takes way too long to get Steel Cyclone.
(I know berserk was lowered to try and make it fit into every opener, but at lower levels, mobs die too fast, and even with double pulls, berserk isnt up in time before the next pull, leaving u low on TP, if u want to keep up with SAM/RDM higher than normal potency attacks at lower levels. There's no reason to be careful of TP spending, if ur not even tanking. Of course becoming a WAR makes things a bit easier, with the higher attack value over MRD.)

Man... I dunno. I feel like I've pretty much mastered Warrior already. Learned pretty much everything there is to learn about how to play as one. So I wouldn't really mind some playstyle changes. Maybe it'll make things more interesting.

After getting my Bard to 70 and trying out healing, I realized how easy it is to play as a Warrior. I barely have to think during fights or make decisions. It's always the same rotation. Maybe if they added a bit of an RNG aspect to our damage (aside from critical hit/DH), it might make things more fun.

WAR is about "preplanning" your rotation, more than the other tanks.
Once u know what to do, its "easier". But its the hardest to learn what to do for a boss fight (for downtime reasons, which are lesser now in SB)

DRK is the more "reactionary" tank, making decisions to fit the situation.
But of course this requires no planning to the fights downtimes.

PLD is in the middle. Some planning for nukes, and reaction with their 1 proc. but its over simplified compared to the two. (This is why i put "easier" in quotes, cuz arguably this is just as easy or easier, depending on perspective)

[BluexBird]

Yeah but what I mean is, once you figure out the fight, you'll do the same thing every single time you do the fight with a Warrior. It's not like with Bard where you have to be on the lookout for surprise procs.

I mean yeah, coming up with the most efficient rotation might be fun at first, but it eventually makes playing Warrior kinda boring. Maybe they'll fix that with the next patch.

[Claire_Pendragon]

Yeah but what I mean is, once you figure out the fight, you'll do the same thing every single time you do the fight with a Warrior. It's not like with Bard where you have to be on the lookout for surprise procs.

I mean yeah, coming up with the most efficient rotation might be fun at first, but it eventually makes playing Warrior kinda boring. Maybe they'll fix that with the next patch.

If that is in response to what I said, I was agreeing with you, just laying it out, to then compare it to the other tanks. (Which my suggestion is to try DRK. Its not complex, but its more "reactive" since DRK is inferior to the other 2 tanks, it has to sacrifice DPS in a lot of situations, or at the very least, "risk" losing DPS, in order to equal other tanks. So you have to decide on the fly, do i REALLY need to sacrifice DPS, or 'risk" the possibility of DPS loss, just to do this one thing a tad bit better?
In the end, you'll just feel like you're playing a very similar simplistic rotation, and even if ur slightly lesser than WAR or PLD, you'll feel close enough, u might ignore that "risk" and just not spend MP into things to enhance them, or you might just go ahead and waste the MP whenever u can.

[Tegernako]

Warrior the only job where if you ask for anything at all you get a horde of people saying you shouldn't because of reasons.

*edit, reading other threads. lol at the hostility towards WAR players. Bunch of hypocrites imo. Never saw these people say a word when 4.0 and that version of WAR was a thing, never spoke up for tank balance for them then, only "they had it coming" or "they had their time to shine" or "it's perfectly fine".

Only tank that ever gets argued against for any kind of change is WAR. Anything at all is an insult and demands multiple posts saying this must not happen! SMH.

[whiskeybravo]

Warrior the only job where if you ask for anything at all you get a horde of people saying you shouldn't because of reasons.

I mean, on one hand the War buffs only exasperated the issues with DRK. Whether the buffs were good/bad/needed/not needed is a different topic, the fact is they happened. And by happening they put DRK in an objectively worse spot. It's a bit of a slap in the face when War get's buffed/fixed almost immediately yet DRK's have been illustrating their probs for months, only to see - yet again - War will be getting "usability" adjustments.

So, IMO the hostility is understandable, if not outright warranted, given the way the devs have seemingly handled the situation. What else do DRK have to do to get noticed?

Now I don't necessarily think taking it out on other Wars is a good use of their time or energy, but as far as I can see - the gloves are off. Don't be standing in the way when DRKs start swinging

[Chrono_Rising]

Warrior the only job where if you ask for anything at all you get a horde of people saying you shouldn't because of reasons.

*edit, reading other threads. lol at the hostility towards WAR players. Bunch of hypocrites imo. Never saw these people say a word when 4.0 and that version of WAR was a thing, never spoke up for tank balance for them then, only "they had it coming" or "they had their time to shine" or "it's perfectly fine".

Warrior has issues still. I think it should be doing a bit more damage than paladin and probably could use tweaking. What is frustrating is the developers jumping at every possible issue on warrior and taking that time to tweak it, while dark sits out in the cold. It isn't like warrior wouldn't be fine without those tweaks, it would just get better. As Whiskey points out though, paying attention to warrior just exacerbates the issues with dark knight which has not gotten adjustments to its functionality despite copious amounts of feedback. Its not warriors fault this is happening, but its hard to blame people getting frustrated with the devs and by extension the player base.

Only tank that ever gets argued against for any kind of change is WAR. Anything at all is an insult and demands multiple posts saying this must not happen! SMH.

I can personally say this quote is false from the numerous buff dark knight posts I've had to argue for on this forum. No more proof to the contrary is need then when UCoB was cleared and people were coming out of the wood work to tell dark knights that their opinions of the class didn't matter because #worldfirst, an opinion even echoed by Yoshi P in interviews that tank balance is fine because #worldfirst. But again, those were individuals, taking that frustration out on the job of warrior is unwarranted.

[TouchandFeel]

Only tank that ever gets argued against for any kind of change is WAR. Anything at all is an insult and demands multiple posts saying this must not happen! SMH.

All three of the tanks jobs have and still do regularly get slammed for asking for things.

Look at many current Paladin threads where something gets asked for, they are told that they are already "too good for being so easy" and that they have no place asking for anything as they are currently "the best tank". Even in 3.X PLDs were constantly being told by others that they were "perfectly fine" and that they didn't need damage because it wasn't their "niche".

Look at DRK threads. DRKs have consistently, going all the way back to 3.0 been told that they were "fine", to "stop complainaing" and to "just deal" or to "wait until after XYZ" to see if the complaints are warranted. Hell, you still get people using "DRK got Ultimate world first" as some sort of silver bullet statement meant to kill any attempt at DRKs asking for fixes.

Unsurprisingly, it happens to WAR too.

Every tank job has very vocal people that argue against them over virtually anything because of overblown "my team vs. your team" mentalities.

Saying that WAR is the only tank that gets argued against is incredibly disingenuous and just feeds into the same divisive attitudes that you are railing against.

Sure WAR has quirks and stuff that could be better. In the end no job is perfect and every job could be tweaked, fixed, buffed or whatever but people need to be more pragmatic, look at the bigger picture and think things through.

Now as far as the current response to WAR getting more attention and being made "easier to play", whatever that means, the reasons behind people's discontent surrounding this should be fairly evident.

First, as has already been pointed out, WAR has been getting pretty much constant attention and tweaks since the launch of Stormblood, with those tweaks often lining up almost perfectly with what the WAR playerbase asked for. DRK players on the other hand have been met with pretty much nothing but silence which understandably rubs them the wrong way. So when they see more attention being given to WAR and more tweaks coming down the pipe, it pretty much leaves DRK players feeling "What the hell, WAR is in a really good spot compared to the rest of the tanks. Why do they keep getting all the attention?". This lack of acknowledgement while another job keeps getting catered to, leads to some pretty powerful resentment.

Second, a number of people which include some WAR players are worried about even more attention being heaped on WAR after what appears to be a semblance of balance has been achieved between WAR and PLD. Why? Well it's simple, SE has a tendency to over-tune, so while something may be presented as just a simple tweak to make WAR "easier to play" it could result in something that buffs WAR a bunch in a round-about way that then completely screws up any balance that may have existed and then we are back to SE scrambling to fix the problem they created and so the cycle continues.

Overall, a good number of players feel that messing with WAR at this point has more potential to have a detrimental effect on the overall balance of the tanks than it has to make things better. That and the attention and effort that they are allocating towards WAR would likely be better focused on DRK, since most tanks recognize that it currently needs the most work.

[Mycow8me]

lol... When you ask for something on war:


When you ask for something on DRK:

[RamzaRuglia]

Honestly, WAR was fine even at 4.0 as I never had trouble keeping up with the other tanks. Sure, there were some minor gripes with the new system, but I adapted and kept on playing without struggling. I saw a few vocal players basically acting like children because they had to learn a new skill, or hated that the other tanks were brought up to par. A few patches in and WAR feels great. I rather liked 'Shake it off' as it was, even with the limited utility, but the changes made it better.

WAR is far from unplayable, it is not broken, and is in a really good spot. If anything DRK needs the love because I swear I see more DRK struggle in even the most basic dungeons for whatever reason.

EDIT: I haven't felt the need to post in a long time, but honestly the way they keep buffing WAR, it's starting to get a little out of control. Literally waiting for the 'I win' button to be a WAR skill at this point.

[WhyAmIHere]

EDIT: I haven't felt the need to post in a long time, but honestly the way they keep buffing WAR, it's starting to get a little out of control. Literally waiting for the 'I win' button to be a WAR skill at this point.

New Skill: Terrorize
0 potency. All enemies in a 45y radius around the caster suffer heart attacks and die. no EXP awarded.
Recast: 30 seconds.