Why Does It Feel Like Poor Play Is Acceptable (I'm Venting.)

[akaneakki]

.. That's fine actually. Faster is NICE. But 25 mins with no wipes? I'd be OK with that for DF. We're not talking about people being sub-optimal. We're talking about people being so close to non-contributory as to be just above AFK-ing.

25 min is pretty slow honestly, aoe is pretty simple to click but most doesn't even do that, which is about doing the basic when there is shitton of trash.

[spagthetapdancer]

for current content? of course. the dev team is actively targeting 15-25 minute runs now because we like it that way. they're designed like that. but I do remember a few runs of Sohr Khai and Baelsar's Wall where people were still grasping things or weren't very geared that ran something to the tune of 30 minutes. time didn't really bother me. repeated wipes did.

I have time. I'm not in a rush.

[Krotoan]

25 min is pretty slow honestly, aoe is pretty simple to click but most doesn't even do that, which is about doing the basic when there is shitton of trash.

sure it's slow. But that's the point, it's not HORRIBLE. Horrible is actually failing because you RAN OUT THE TIMER on the dungeon. Or because the healer is going OOM from all the raises they're having to do.. or heals so badly that people keep dying on tiny pulls. Or that the tank is so bad at aggro that things keep turning and killing the party OR the dps is so bad things are passing enrage barriers or hard set limits (like running out of bananas on hullbreaker, which has never happened to me but I'm supposing is a lose conditional situation)

25 minutes runs aren't the subject here.

[akaneakki]

I have time. I'm not in a rush.

I respect that. However, when you do the same thing for weeks/months you will eventually get tired of it, just like me and mostlikely some people in this thread/game. It's like when I farm content, what would I choose?
5 and half min susano extreme or 9 mins? The answer is pretty obvious. You would probably not be bothered by it as you got time. I have time too (most of the time) but doesn't mean I'm going to spend extra 4 mins when everyone is overgeared like crazy for the content and can't kill things faster. Farming means people are used to the mechanics and --should-- be avaible to do some decent amount of damage, but when they are doing the same damage I did as ilvl 320 something is terrible wrong, hell some people do as low as I did at 310. 25 min dungeon is slow and honestly you can do it at 15-16 min with just okay dps as in people doing a standar aoe on trash and some okay rotation on boss. If a dungeon takes longer than 25 min, they aren't aoe on the adds, not doing basic rotation on bosses etc. There is a huge difference doing big aoe than doing single target on big pulls, to many it seems like an impossible task.

Horrible is actually failing because you RAN OUT THE TIMER on the dungeon. 25 minutes runs aren't the subject here.

That's like saying, wiping 10 times every 5 min in extreme trials makes you lose ''only'' 50 min to get a kill. Expert that takes 25 min, is slow and I still stand on my point. The subject is people doing basic and 25 min runs aren't basic my friend. I've seen some people far less than my friend in terms of dps but we still manage to hit 15-16 min mark in expert. If you are doing it longer than 20-25 min, they aren't doing basic, they simply are lazy and that's the subject too. When you do expert your goal is to kill shit and get out fast isn't it? Or is it fine to do it 50 min with multiply wipes? Because hey the timer didn't run out so why does it matter? Imagine everyone have that sort of attitude, not only would it make it way worse for everyone but this mindset sets people to not even bothering as long it's done before timer runs out.

Edit: what I meant by killing shit fast and get out fast as ''object'' is that when you done is so many times, the first thing is you want to get out as soon as possible, just because you get the thing done before timer runs out, doesn't mean it's fine. Like imagine doing 50 min expert roulettes everyday,would you be okay with it? I mean you clearly said that as long the roulette is done before the timer is over, you did it and that's the goal.

[Krotoan]

I respect that. However, when you do the same thing for weeks/months...

I'm.. not gonna read 30+ pages to catch up, I apologize for how lazy that seems but it's mostly people arguing the same point from what I can skim.

Did this shift over to a different conversation while I was away from this thread?

OP is venting about his surprise at encountering people who fail base level 1-2-3 combos and concepts. God forbid these same people attempt EX Primals.

[Jijifli]

I respect that. However, when you do the same thing for weeks/months you will eventually get tired of it, just like me and mostlikely some people in this thread/game. It's like when I farm content, what would I choose?

My rant was not about wanting the fastest clears. You think 25 minutes is slow. When I get these extremes, I'm happy if the run is only 25 minutes. My issue with people being able to make it to later parts of the game, without knowing a thing about how to play the game. This isn't about someone that messes up an opener, but about, say, the DRG that goes into Ala Mhigo and only presses Impulse Drive because it's cool, or the co-healer that barely does anything in 8 man content, forcing the other to solo heal it while they afk.

[akaneakki]

My rant was not about wanting the fastest clears.

I'm aware of that and but I'm bringing my own opinion here as well. If there is 10 trash mobs right in front of you, why would you single target 1 add at the time? I get it, people not doing heavy thrust etc the very horrible thing was the ''real subject here''. I'm bringin up something that I felt like sharing. I get your topic don't get me wrong, but it should be a basic thing to aoe mobs when there is 5-10 right in front of you. I think this is one of the horrible things in this game. Maybe you don't find it horrible but it's something players seem to ignore to read on their tool tip. Hey pretty much like the people you met who are horrible who never read them hence you was being mad about some super horrible play because they can't read what their own skills do .

I'm.. not gonna read 30+ pages to catch up, I apologize for how lazy that seems but it's mostly people arguing the same point from what I can skim.

No need to apologize, if you read what I said to him, I'm saying the same to you. I was bringing up examples not saying its what he meant. If a player can't seem to aoe big amount of adds in front of him they don't do the basic. I think it's as horrible as a drg not doing heavy thrust, tanks not mitigating busters, healers spamming medica 2 etc. Yes there are even schs who just spam physique because they think that's the real tool to do most of the time as a sch.

[Jijifli]

I'm aware of that and but I'm bringing my own opinion here as well. If there is 10 trash mobs right in front of you, why would you single target 1 add at the time? I get it, people not doing heavy thrust etc the very horrible thing was the ''real subject here''. I'm bringin up something that I felt like sharing. I get your topic don't get me wrong, but it should be a basic thing to aoe mobs when there is 5-10 right in front of you. I think this is one of the horrible things in this game. Maybe you don't find it horrible but it's something players seem to ignore to read on their tool tip. Hey pretty much like the people you met who are horrible who never read them hence you was being mad about some super horrible play because they can't read what their own skills do .

I misread then. You stated farm, and my head's just marked farm as stuff like trials and raids.

Yes, the no aoe when you pull 50 things is another issue. It still shouldn't be what makes a run 25 minutes though. Still awkwardly had 0 aoe parties manage 20.

[akaneakki]

I misread then. You stated farm, and my head's just marked farm as stuff like trials and raids.

Yes, the no aoe when you pull 50 things is another issue. It still shouldn't be what makes a run 25 minutes though. Still awkwardly had 0 aoe parties manage 20.

I didn't make myself clear so I'm sorry. When you do expert roulettes, lets say for 2-3 months, aren't you going to get tired of it? I certainly would but that's my OWN opinion. It's almost as ''farming'' content. You do it on a daily basis and you get tiresome from it. Why would anyone want 25 min runs? Issue is that many don't do the basics. That's why 25 min runs are ''slow'' Because on an average for me expert is between 13-16 min runs. Maybe because I'm lucky? like you said, I agree, I rather do those 25 min runs vs those horrible over 35 mins, if I had to choose, but we all know doing DF there is no choice, you have to go with what you get most of the time and sadly there are far too many players who can't do basic.

[Jijifli]

I didn't make myself clear so I'm sorry. When you do expert roulettes, lets say for 2-3 months, aren't you going to get tired of it? I certainly would but that's my OWN opinion.

I've actually avoiding capping for a while now, outside of my alt that's a tank. Given I didn't cap last week on him either.

So yes. Kinda.