Real Solutions to PvP problems

[RiyahArp]

Not pointless 3.0 nostalgia.

Healers either need a potency down, or a mp cost up. Currently both are way too strong, especially in concert. Ideally healers should probably be less about direct heals and more about support or buffing, as healing in general in pvp is wearying even when OP and is more like tanking.

DPS need more defensive abilties to compensate. They are made out of paper, and often are the weak point in a match. Both individual abilities and group abilities are needed, the latter to balance out the roles a bit more. Or possibly, boosting attack when in concert. Currently DPS is just focusing a target and trying to get them to zero, with very little additional play. CC might be effective to distinguish them, but its hard to combine it with both dps stacking and high damage single abilities.

Tanks...well tanks are less about protecting, and more about being chunkier dps. I'm not qualified to speak much on them because I dislike the tank class in this game; it's essentially a dps class that uses cooldowns to soak damage. They are hard to balance in general.

We have two modes in game, small party competitive and large party casual. Feast/Frontlines.

-Feast in general is ok in structure, but suffers because healing takes far more responsibility and skill than the other classes. That is, healers have outsized impact on a match. They also tend to be the least numerous role, because healers in general tend to be carebear. I mean, you support the group. I think that they have to be nerfed, and responsibility spread out to all the other roles. Tanks should heal or shield more, DPS should cooldown or peel more. Currently its often 3v1 on both sides. Maybe ideally make it so that you can run without an actual healer instead; that is what made potd viable, and might speed up queues all around.

-Frontlines is actually decent. the problem is this game's "pvp community" will never treat it as a fun mode. If there is a winning strategy, no matter how cheap (spawn camping in seal rock, stacking one side in shatter, stacking heals in rw, mass cometeor spam in secure) it's going to happen. You are going to have to think of testing from the mindset of a rather nasty player, and look for ways they would break the mode down to achieve wins without hacking or cheating directly. Then its just whether or not its an acceptible loss. Spawn camping in seal rock sucked, but wasn't an ironclad win; the others though influenced much more directly. If its not possible, you may need to deemphasize rewards for wins to a small degree. An achievement that takes 100 wins or 1000 matches played is better than one that takes 100 wins-you still have big incentive to win and get it faster, but you arent frustrated if you constantly lose.

[Wintersandman]

-Frontlines is actually decent. the problem is this game's "pve community" will never treat it as a fun mode. If there is a winning strategy, no matter how cheap (spawn camping in seal rock, stacking one side in shatter, stacking heals in rw, mass cometeor spam in secure) it's going to happen. You are going to have to think of testing from the mindset of a rather nasty player, and look for ways they would break the mode down to achieve wins without hacking or cheating directly. Then its just whether or not its an acceptible loss. Spawn camping in seal rock sucked, but wasn't an ironclad win; the others though influenced much more directly. If its not possible, you may need to deemphasize rewards for wins to a small degree. An achievement that takes 100 wins or 1000 matches played is better than one that takes 100 wins-you still have big incentive to win and get it faster, but you arent frustrated if you constantly lose.

I fixed it for you. It is not the active PvP community that is doing these things you state.

[Zojha]

It is not the active PvP community that is doing these things you state.

Which is puzzling, since the PvE community has also been alleged to use bots, hacks, be utterly uncoordinated, clueless on strategy, averse to actually fighting players and not give a damn about winning in the first place. "Garo bois", they were called then.

Now the same community apparently is behind coordinating premade strategies to win. While still apparently having a defeatist fairweather mindset and wanting a surrender option for Rival Wings.

I know demonization is nice and all - I do that with healers myself, it's soul cleansing - but the stereotypes don't quite add up here. It's probably not as easy as "Them" (PvE community) and "Us" (PvP community).

[Wintersandman]

Now the same community apparently is behind coordinating premade strategies to win. While still apparently having a defeatist fairweather mindset and wanting a surrender option for Rival Wings. .

A: Why is a premade bad the game is designed to play with friends
B: I don't see any active (Longtime) PvP'er asking for a surrender option. The Active PvP community is saying they can turn the tides.

[Mirch]

-Feast in general is ok in structure, but suffers because healing takes far more responsibility and skill than the other classes. That is, healers have outsized impact on a match. They also tend to be the least numerous role, because healers in general tend to be carebear. I mean, you support the group. I think that they have to be nerfed, and responsibility spread out to all the other roles. Tanks should heal or shield more, DPS should cooldown or peel more. Currently its often 3v1 on both sides. Maybe ideally make it so that you can run without an actual healer instead; that is what made potd viable, and might speed up queues all around.

healers far more responsible what? each member of your party weights the same. this is not moba sir, this is ffxiv, the roles work as they're intended, especially the healers. What feast would really need is that they revisit the medal system and the vulnerability medals tresholds, and dulcis in fundo either bring back chat or improve quickchat.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

Which is puzzling, since the PvE community has also been alleged to use bots, hacks, be utterly uncoordinated, clueless on strategy, averse to actually fighting players and not give a damn about winning in the first place. "Garo bois", they were called then.

Now the same community apparently is behind coordinating premade strategies to win. While still apparently having a defeatist fairweather mindset and wanting a surrender option for Rival Wings.

I know demonization is nice and all - I do that with healers myself, it's soul cleansing - but the stereotypes don't quite add up here. It's probably not as easy as "Them" (PvE community) and "Us" (PvP community).

Looking back at all the "Garo Bois" that were trying, but were just unaware of what they were doing wrong, I retract anything bad I said about them. I place them higher than the fairweather folk that want to call it quits if they have to work harder, or even just THINK they can't win.

[RiyahArp]

mirch, if your healer can't keep themselves up during the match, you are either lucky and immediately retreat (losing your offense) or unlucky and another dps or worse, the tank, dies too. The healer is the easiest role to go wrong with the worst consequences, because it's the only role that affects others than themselves.

Third, don't be petty.

[Mirch]

mirch, if your healer can't keep themselves up during the match, you are either lucky and immediately retreat (losing your offense) or unlucky and another dps or worse, the tank, dies too. The healer is the easiest role to go wrong with the worst consequences, because it's the only role that affects others than themselves.

do you even heal in feast?
if dps and tanks dont do their job it's the same as losing with healer dead everytime, and how possibly other roles don't affect others? you ever tanked in feast? you know that tank toolkits are more than enough to provide both offensive and defensive support to your team, a tank that CCs enemies to help taking down someone or to give own's healer time to breath and lessen his pressure affects a lot the others, the whole team and the enemies as well, DPSes giving proper damage through peels and bursts affect their healers and their opponent healers.

[Mofafafa]

wow damn, as if everything you proposed doesn't appear in the old system. wow my mind is blown.


tanks had their own identify before which are | PLD = protector, DRK = Debuffer, Warrior = FELLCLEAVE |

it was a poor balancing from the SE side in which among every Melee DPS, only ninja have the ability to triumph and solo kill against every other DPS.
In the frontline point of view, MCH was viewed as OP class while it is viewed as the LEAST favorable class in Feast. An implemention of OGCD with decent cooldown and lowering the GCD to compensate the extra OGCD to promote burst method for feast and lowering the high sustaining damage that MCH can offer in frontline.

Regarding your frontline / Rival wings complaints, i rarely seen any complaint from my DataCenter which is Elemental from JP. unless there are several cases of unskilled player still does not have the ability to utilize the 9 button ffxiv smash.

And yes, healer is the easiest role to go wrong with in feast but in several cases. Some blame are onto healer wrongfully as some the DPS did not do their job to relieve the pressure. Eg: DPS standing still getting hit for free in which having to burn the healer's MP quickly, DPS stand too close/ run towards to the healer which result in opponent switching targets and gets bursted, Team member LOS... lol, team member ran too far away from healer in which the range of healing isnt in reach, not killing opponent, healer blew all his OGCD such as benediction just to save your sorry mistake, etc.

The feast now is pretty imbalance because of all the missing mechanics from the old system and medal system is practically even worst compared to before. The tanks lost all their defensive skill to mitigate damages.

[RiyahArp]

do you even heal in feast?
if dps and tanks dont do their job it's the same as losing with healer dead everytime, and how possibly other roles don't affect others? you ever tanked in feast? you know that tank toolkits are more than enough to provide both offensive and defensive support to your team, a tank that CCs enemies to help taking down someone or to give own's healer time to breath and lessen his pressure affects a lot the others, the whole team and the enemies as well, DPSes giving proper damage through peels and bursts affect their healers and their opponent healers.

DPS fail at their job...the healer keeps them up to try again. Tanks act stupid...the healer keeps them up. The healer...he does it all by himself. He dies, neither dps nor tanks can do anything but run back to spawn and try not to die because they don't have any sustain. A tank in general has very limited tools to fix stuff compared to a healer; he can't cover two people at the same time like a healer does, he can't self-sustain like a healer does when under fire, and as the match goes on, he grows more vulnerable due to medal debuffs. Most DPS don't peel...the healer peels himself by using line of sight effectively and all his toolkit. Half of the dps coudln't even use purify on their healer effectively.

If the healer isn't good to start with, you can't do much. Only when healers have roughly equal skill do dps and tanks shine, and that's mostly at the highest levels of play.