I miss the old PvP.

[RiyahArp]

I'm not sure what you want then. One ilm punch was cheap, not good; it affected SCH and SMN mostly, as the other jobs had garbage buffs up if they did. And you had to spam it with multiple monks because in HW you easily had 6 buffs up at a time. If you are arguing 3.0 was better since it had more abilities, but you didn't use most of them anyways, what exactly is the benefit it had?

[Wintersandman]

I'm not sure what you want then. One ilm punch was cheap, not good; it affected SCH and SMN mostly, as the other jobs had garbage buffs up if they did. And you had to spam it with multiple monks because in HW you easily had 6 buffs up at a time. If you are arguing 3.0 was better since it had more abilities, but you didn't use most of them anyways, what exactly is the benefit it had?

The toolkit was more beneficial and played more cohesively. Also you had PvP abilities to help fill the void. You also had CC abilities that leveled the playing field. Sure healers were strong but they were manageable. You also knew how the abilities were going to act. They functioned identical as they did in PvE. Now they don't. You also used a lot of abilities in 3.0. You're just nitpicking ones you didn't find useful.

Ok lets look at the effectiveness of One Ilm Punch. Remove BoD, Enochian, Rampart, Shields (SCH and Astro), Huton, Regen effects, stoneskin, protect, any of the MNK buffs, Maim, Straight Shot, Hot Shot, or any other beneficial self buff that a DPS, Melee, or Tank could apply. Each buff taken away took away survivability, burst capability, etc and therefor was extremely effective. AST took as much of an impact as SCH when it came to MNK and One Ilm Punch because any AST in their right mind would be Nocturnal anyways.

[RiyahArp]

...you didn't play pvp in 3.0 if you thought the pve toolkit was more cohesive. The pve kit in 3.0 was designed for single, static enemies, with a simpler side-kit for trash. That meant a lot of uptime for timers, with buffs, debuffs, and dots, and a complex normal rotation that required you to hit a long combo of abilities in sequence. That kit wasn't designed for a lot of player or enemy movement, and had a tremendous amount of filler abilities.

In pvp, a lot of the abilities just straight up didn't work.

DOTS were useless, where CC worked, which was the total opposite in pve. Having 3-4 buffs and needing to land prerequisite combos in pve was ok due to massive boss health pools, as they stayed in the middle of the room. In pvp, those were liabilities, and you couldn't build on the sequence of moves pve had. So you wound up getting this weird half-kit focused on burst, with CC really only used to enable that burst by preventing people from running away. A lot of techniques didn't really work that well at all...bards multidotting for example.

I just guess its been long enough people forgot this.

[Wintersandman]

...you didn't play pvp in 3.0 if you thought the pve toolkit was more cohesive.

Seeing how I did over 500 matches in 3 months. I will call your bluff. And topped my server at the time (Ultros) for number of wins with 276 matches in the month of April.

Also I would say I gave 3.0 more of a shot than you. The only time I see you even got on the board for frontlines standings was 2 months. Once in february for 30 matches and once in July (4.0) for 100 matches (it was the exp wasn't it).

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

...you didn't play pvp in 3.0 if you thought the pve toolkit was more cohesive. The pve kit in 3.0 was designed for single, static enemies, with a simpler side-kit for trash. That meant a lot of uptime for timers, with buffs, debuffs, and dots, and a complex normal rotation that required you to hit a long combo of abilities in sequence. That kit wasn't designed for a lot of player or enemy movement, and had a tremendous amount of filler abilities.

In pvp, a lot of the abilities just straight up didn't work.

DOTS were useless, where CC worked, which was the total opposite in pve. Having 3-4 buffs and needing to land prerequisite combos in pve was ok due to massive boss health pools, as they stayed in the middle of the room. In pvp, those were liabilities, and you couldn't build on the sequence of moves pve had. So you wound up getting this weird half-kit focused on burst, with CC really only used to enable that burst by preventing people from running away. A lot of techniques didn't really work that well at all...bards multidotting for example.

I just guess its been long enough people forgot this.

Actually, DoTs were arguably MORE useful then. BRDs multidotting is how they achieved fairly high numbers, though the BRD burst was SO good, they didn't need it. Set DoTs> Barrage + Empyreal Arrow> Farshot> Sidewinder. . . your target was dead before your feet hit the ground.

MCH burst was even simpler than that, and didn't even require Wildfire. Ricochet> Gauss Round> bind/stun> Between the Eyes. That's where I get my "1-2-3-4, you-don't-exist-anymore" rhyme from.

Very few jobs required full combos to execute, or anything lengthy to perform. . . they were called burst rotations for a reason. I'm not sure where you're getting the impression you had, Riyah, but we must've played VERY different 3.x PvP.

[Wintersandman]

snip.

See above my comment.

[RiyahArp]

I've done 1045 matches in the HW expansion, averaging about 29% wins, 33% second, 35% third. It's probably about a 60/40 split between seize and shatter. I didn't top the ranks mostly because you needed a LOT of wins per month to get there, and I was busy with leveling all jobs to 60 and getting relics. I also tended to end up healing the matches in HW after a bit. I didn't really need the exp at all, and half of my jobs have never even seen a pvp match; i usually main whm in it, and the few dps jobs i tried were alreay 60 when i was in it.

So i think I can say that I did enough not to be dismissed out of hand. I said that because its ridiculous to say that the pve kit in 3.0 was cohesive.

Actually, DoTs were arguably MORE useful then. BRDs multidotting is how they achieved fairly high numbers, though the BRD burst was SO good, they didn't need it. Set DoTs> Barrage + Empyreal Arrow> Farshot> Sidewinder. . . your target was dead before your feet hit the ground

They weren't useful, because the dots were swallowed up by aoe heals. You also couldn't easily make use bard procs due to the bowmage aspect. Yes you got high totals, but had low effective damage. You could multidot with blm because each proc refreshed duration as well as boosted damage massively, and was instant damage. It was actually easier to thunder spam than to cast straight dps spells sometimes because it removed a lot of the annoying aspects of BLM. So if you tried to do your pve rotation or general concepts, you would be pretty ineffective.

You still had a lot of dissonance between pve an pvp actions, even more in a way because you had to ignore so many abilities. And you still had classes like DRG which had a lot of effective actions even if you ignored many of them.

[Kisama]

I said that because its ridiculous to say that the pve kit in 3.0 was cohesive.

I have no idea what you're talking about. Granted, I'll only claim to have been good at 3 jobs in Heavansward (MCH, AST and NIN), but I can say that there was a time and place for just about every ability. The only "worthless" abilities I can think of were WAR's DEF boost and Protect, though it could be argued that those were useful to reduce the chance of an important buff from being removed.

I'm going to say that your low win rate and opinion on the pve kit go hand in hand.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

Tell that to the 100-0 BRD burst that required their dots, or the SMNs who were getting upwards of 500-600K damage in matches, the Lead Shot kills I got, the DoT kills through Attunement. . . AoE heals were nice, but between DoTs and focused damage, they weren't going to save someone.

The Bard burst really required like, no procs at all. You applied dots, prepped Barrage, then you deleted someone with those skills I said before. That was really it. You just literally pick a target, DoT, banish them to the shadow realm. There wasn't even time to try to heal that target if you did it right. It was ridiculous. . . and still somewhat possible. Not a full 100-0, but the BRD burst is still pretty nasty when done right.

BLM was one of the highest threats, offset by how complicated it could be to play, and the fact that no sensible player would let a BLM freecast.

[Visterlipper]

I haven't really explore the PvP content in FFXIV yet but I'm curious if PvP is a competitive factor in the game or just something casually fun to go about...?