New Lucky Bancho Census 12/1/17

[Dzian]

I have to disagree here the challenge is what keeps people from doing the content. I really don't think that long lasting awards matter as much as ur assuming.l

The challenge perhaps is what puts some people off but for many it is the rewards.

If you look through all the raiding threads that have come up over the years you will soon see a hell of a lot of people saying they simply don't raid exactly because the rewards suck. It's a very common opinion and has been for a long time. I'm not saying it's the only reason raid participation is so low but it's certainly a big one. there's even a few people that have said the same kind of thing in this thread.

So i'd say it's probably a much bigger reason than you might think it is. and is an important factor for more people than you might think.

on a more personal note it's also the main reason of people I know or knew stopped playing the game. because the gear just isn't rewarding or satisfying to get. and never actually feels valuable..

10 million players or so in this game. but looking at the ops data maybe 800k are active. makes me wonder how many of the other 9.2 million stopped playing for the same reasons as many of my friends. I'd guess it to be quite a few though. a lot of people have said this game has a real problem with player retention. hell some of these census threads have had the active playerbase at less than 300k.....

[Bourne_Endeavor]

So i'd say it's probably a much bigger reason than you might think it is. and is an important factor for more people than you might think

If this were the case, why does WoW average lower clears overall? Now I don't want to insinuate FFXIV's progression system isn't stale, but I think you're overestimating just how much gear is a factor.

[MistakeNot]

The challenge perhaps is what puts some people off but for many it is the rewards.

If you look through all the raiding threads that have come up over the years you will soon see a hell of a lot of people saying they simply don't raid exactly because the rewards suck.

For getting the initial clear rewards are rarely an issue - unless the rewards are REALLY good, in which case they can entice people who would otherwise be uninterested.
For becoming a "raider" and running the raids multiple times - then the rewards matter greatly.

[Zojha]

The challenge perhaps is what puts some people off but for many it is the rewards.

If you look through all the raiding threads I've the years you see a he'll of a lot of people saying they simply don't raid exactly because the rewards suck.

You say these two things as if they had nothing to do with each other. They do however.

Enjoyment is an intrinsic reward. It's why people might RP, glamour, chat with people or have alts even though they get absolutely nothing for playing pretend, looking fancy, being social or putting up with the additional maintenance effort. There's a wealth of activities, both real and virtual, that have no reward other than this.

On the flipside, when something is not enjoyable for whatever reason (effort, morals, general dislike, whatever), a rational person is not going to do it - unless they are externally rewarded for it with something they do intrinsically enjoy.
The classic example is a bribe - Normally, you'd not do what somebody else tells you to, because it's not what you enjoy, but since he's offering you a lot of money for it and you do enjoy the things the money can buy you, you do it anyway so long as the enjoyment gained from the things you can buy for the money outweigh the dislike of the original action. The bribe can also fail if the value of the money does not outweigh the original dislike, for example refusing on grounds of principle.
Or in game terms, people don't raid because they don't enjoy raiding but they might do it anyway if the rewards are good enough to compensate. And the less enjoyable it is to a person, the bigger/better rewards you need to motivate that person.

And that's where the two are linked. If the challenge/organization effort wouldn't put people off in the first place, they'd need no/little rewards to raid, because they already get the reward of enjoyment out of it, on top of the rewards that already exist. Since they are put off, they need rewards to compensate and the current ones simply aren't big enough to overcome the dislike.

That said, I personally think that the current raid rewards are quite fine - They are good enough to tip someone inclined towards raiding to do it, but not so good that people who'd rather do something else instead push themselves to it. Who you can't help are the people who think they are the prior but really are the latter.

Since we're talking of rewards, tho, MMOs in general very frequently work with external rewards because let's face it: Repeating the same thing over and over is only fun for so long, especially with such static content as PvE, as it lacks innate replayability. It's kind of a necessary evil to keep it running, else people would run content once or twice and then queues would rapidly die, which is bad as the multiplayer bit relies on other players.
The easier it is to get these rewards, i.e motivators, the shorter they and the content associated with them lasts, as the motivation dies the moment the reward motivating people to do it is attained. That in turn means that the longer rewards are meant to last, the longer it needs to take to get them in the first place to keep the content running, or you'll quickly run out of things to motivate people with. That however runs counter to the primary audience: Casuals with little time, who also suffer from enjoyment degradation like anyone else.

It's an interesting topic. While I don't think raids in particular are a big issue reward-wise, PvE content in general could use more innate replayability to increase the base enjoyment and reduce the rate of degradation, which would lower the needed reward threshold for participation and thus, allow for somewhat more longevity. There's only so much you can do on that front, but IMO it's worth looking into.

[Alleo]

I have to disagree here the challenge is what keeps people from doing the content. I really don't think that long lasting awards matter as much as ur assuming. Many people enjoy the birds or ponies but many choose the easiest path to get them. I know many people who waited to bird farm after it went unsync. Alot of people simply are afraid of challenge and don't want to learn rotations, or watch external guides to play their video game. If the gear lasted longer then six months it may motivate some but I doubt as many as u think. Also for people like me finding seven other people I know out of the 200 people on my friends list is the biggest challenge of all

It does not even have to be fear of a challenge. I can only talk about myself but I only got all the ponies in HW and I still have some birds left to farm. I did Lakshimi ex but for me its just so much time that you need to maybe get the dog. So I will try it out and maybe get the drop but the true farming will be done when you can unsynch it. You dont need 7 other people and you need less time too. At the same time the drop rate is increased (thankfully) and most of them have the totems. I am not saying that there are not some that just fear challenge itself but for others its simply less time that they need to do it. I am still fine with that way because people need to wait a whole expansion to unsynch them so the prestige is still there for all those that did it synch.

My biggest problem is the normal gear. If you keep up with the gearing you will out-gear any new dungeon thus making those drops useless (if you dont need it for another job). At the same time it takes some work to get there yet the next stone gear is fast around the corner. Maybe they should make the gearing longer. Not release everything with one patch but give it to us over time. Make them a certain ilvl so that they are strong and in the meantime people can gear the missing pieces by either running the new dungeons or raiding (which would be higher). This way dungeon gear would not be useless for those that only play a small amount of jobs and at the same time the gear that you farmed for will be current quite longer. Maybe increase the amount of stones needed for it.

[Rinuko]

Louisoix is filled with slackers. 36% of its players are at level 70.... :P

Server still young with lot of people who wanted 'Road to 60' buff.

Also... SE where is our 10m players online that you say in your ads on Internet and facebook?!

Because Japanese people can play Dragon Quest X is why there are more Westerners. We only have FFXIV to play, where the JP players can play the better MMO DQX .

And Phantasy Star Online 2
And JP servers are only options now with fan translation. The SEA server has or are shutting down

[Cakekizyy]

That would be great. 5+ clears: 0 chests. 3-4 clears: 1 chest. 0-2 clears: 2 chests. And in each of these cases, players who have already cleared can't roll for the items, even if they didn't get anything.

Why not use Rabanastre system? Chest always drops, just can't roll if already got loot for week?

[Zarabeth]

Not if no one else wants to. And even then, that only keeps you entertained for so long and doesn't allow you to have fun with the new abilities.

Have you considered starting a group to do this content? Maybe post in the forums about it and see how it goes? If people are quitting because they can't raid more, then there must be others who would join you.

[bswpayton]

It does not even have to be fear of a challenge. I can only talk about myself but I only got all the ponies in HW and I still have some birds left to farm. I did Lakshimi ex but for
.

Is 6 months not enough , I seems like a very decent amount of time to me this is what Im not understand about what people mean by make the gear last longer, should gear last a year at a time? And in reality a 320 set if you do no ex primals or not even one of the raids will prob last the whole expansion.
I remember in hw that I tanked the last dungeon of the expansion with easy in lore gear so Im not understanding really. Also you say you get the mount faster but how 5.0 isnt coming out until like a year in a half from now. It would seem you could get the mounts alot faster during the actual expansion, and even ran unsync it could still take you the same 99 runs. I just dont understand what many even get out of the game only doing a small portion of the content. without the extremeres are raids its only 24 man , and 4 dungeons.

[Sebazy]

Not sure if it's been said, but I really like raiding. Even now, months after Deltascape Savage has been out, I still enjoy doing it. However, there's a problem:

99% OF THE PLAYERBASE DOESN'T WANT YOU IN THEIR PARTY AFTER YOU CLEARED IT!

QFT, I literally spend my time floating around my inn room listening out for anyone who might need a hand these days. My group's on hiatus and isn't interested in optimising omega or running coil and PF has very very little to offer me at this stage beyond the occasional amusing trap party. Barf.