[dev1206] Class Reforms & Action Lists

[Kiote]

Jumping to conclusions, off that bat before the patch is even out yet. Makes anyones speculation/opinion/ assumed fact Invalid to you actually play the patch, That includes my Opinions and such as well. This happens every patch that gets annouced before coming out.. then when its out.. people are "okay" with it and move on... this is no different.

People like you fail to understand that there is no going back..

If these changes are awful when they are implemented, we are stuck with them. Yoshida doesn't have the benefits of trying something and then changing it if it doesn't work. They spent all that Credit on the release. He is literally on a forced march forward and can never look back.

If something looks awful to you, you need to speak up now. Once it's in the game, it's there to stay. They can adjust potency and difficult. Simple adjustment can be made in the future. A system overhaul like this is a one shot deal.

If it looks bad, speak up. You will not get a second chance.

[Starlord]

People like you fail to understand that there is no going back..

If these changes are awful when they are implemented, we are stuck with them. Yoshida doesn't have the benefits of trying something and then changing it if it doesn't work. They spent all that Credit on the release. He is literally on a forced march forward and can never look back.

If something looks awful to you, you need to speak up now. Once it's in the game, it's there to stay. They can adjust potency and difficult. Simple adjustment can be made in the future. A system overhaul like this is a one shot deal.

If it looks bad, speak up. You will not get a second chance.

People like you fail to understand that there is no going back..

Right back at ya, but have fun crying like a baby

[darkstarpoet1]

People like you fail to understand that there is no going back..

If these changes are awful when they are implemented, we are stuck with them. Yoshida doesn't have the benefits of trying something and then changing it if it doesn't work. They spent all that Credit on the release. He is literally on a forced march forward and can never look back.

If something looks awful to you, you need to speak up now. Once it's in the game, it's there to stay. They can adjust potency and difficult. Simple adjustment can be made in the future. A system overhaul like this is a one shot deal.

If it looks bad, speak up. You will not get a second chance.

you already know this is the way it is on these forums. if you see something before it comes out you worry about and bring it up you are crying without trying it. if you complain after they are put in you are told to shut up and go play wow. this group doesn't care about anyone else that plays the game now nor would want to play it in the future. the sheep will go to their own slaughter.

i can agree we shouldn't jump to conclusions over these postings until they are put in game, but the fact is both sides are already doing the same thing. one group sees the changes and can think of the bad things possible and the other only thinks of the positives. neither side cares to see the other side of the argument.

tanaka was right when he said the forums were a horrible idea and would never work.

[Hyrist]

you already know this is the way it is on these forums. if you see something before it comes out you worry about and bring it up you are crying without trying it. if you complain after they are put in you are told to shut up and go play wow. this group doesn't care about anyone else that plays the game now nor would want to play it in the future. the sheep will go to their own slaughter.

i can agree we shouldn't jump to conclusions over these postings until they are put in game, but the fact is both sides are already doing the same thing. one group sees the changes and can think of the bad things possible and the other only thinks of the positives. neither side cares to see the other side of the argument.

tanaka was right when he said the forums were a horrible idea and would never work.

That's a bit of the pot calling the kettle black, isn't it?

You claim that the problem with the forums is that everyone takes a black/white position, but to claim as such, you'd have to be seeing only the black and white positions yourself.

The issue here isn't 'looking at the positives' vs 'looking at the negatives' personal opinions on speculation are just that.

The issue here is that people are jumping to conclusions without the patch being out. That's the divide. One side is saying "Wait and see." While the other is saying "OMG I'M GONNA RAGE QUIT NAOZ!"

Even if the patch on paper involves tropes you might disagree with, the gameplay itself may be enjoyable enough to keep you on. As billing won't commence til sometime after the post is out, give it a shot first to confirm your opinion. There's no harm in that. For as much time and so called loyalty you've invested into the game at this point, that alone should encourage you to give it a chance.

[TinnySnips]

you already know this is the way it is on these forums. if you see something before it comes out you worry about and bring it up you are crying without trying it. if you complain after they are put in you are told to shut up and go play wow. this group doesn't care about anyone else that plays the game now nor would want to play it in the future. the sheep will go to their own slaughter.

i can agree we shouldn't jump to conclusions over these postings until they are put in game, but the fact is both sides are already doing the same thing. one group sees the changes and can think of the bad things possible and the other only thinks of the positives. neither side cares to see the other side of the argument.

tanaka was right when he said the forums were a horrible idea and would never work.

Tanaka was wrong. Disagreements happen, and from conflict comes resolution. Most people will argue their side solely, even if they do see the merits of the other viewpoint. This is how arguments work. Arguing is good.

Personally, I like the changes because combat is currently broken. Sure, it's much better than it was 6 months ago, but it's still broken. Combat changes have been good so far, so I'm going to continue my present optimistic attitude toward changes until I see a reason not to. I have a hard time with people who are upset about the solidification of roles, as there has been plenty of information regarding the roles the different classes will fill. There has been time to change course and modify your expectations.

As for soloing... it doesn't look broken to me. Every class, with the exception of Gladiator, appears to retain solo ability. I could be wrong here, but if you think there's a class that has lost solo ability based on these ability lists, please say which one, and I will gladly explain how I think you're mistaken. As for Gladiator... well, see the next paragraph.

We have been told there will be 15 abilities per class at level 50. Given the fact that other than the DoMs, each class has less than 10 abilities listed, it is safe to assume that these lists are not complete. I imagine that the remaining abilities will fill in some of the gaps that the current list leaves open. This intent of this list seems to be to clarify roles. I'm sure the unlisted abilities will address things such as Gladiator's solo ability and LNC's complete loss of utility. Of course, this is just speculation, other than the fact that these lists are not complete (that is clear).

EDIT: Belay my last paragraph. My count is thrown off because of the funky indentations on comboed WSs. After recounting, each list seems complete. My apologies. It does seem that soloing as Gladiator will be painfully slow. Here's hoping that something can be done about that.

[AdvancedWind]

Here's hoping that something can be done about that.

Cross class skills.

[Griss]

EDIT: Belay my last paragraph. My count is thrown off because of the funky indentations on comboed WSs. After recounting, each list seems complete. My apologies. It does seem that soloing as Gladiator will be painfully slow. Here's hoping that something can be done about that.

I think what threw you off was you were looking at abilitys and weapon skills differently. it was stated 15 ACTIONS per. an action being an ability, weapon skill, or spell.

I don't think soloing as a glad will be any more or less painful then it is now. Throw in cross classed skills and the mystery that is the class traits and it will probably be alright.

[Kiote]

I have a hard time with people who are upset about the solidification of roles, as there has been plenty of information regarding the roles the different classes will fill. There has been time to change course and modify your expectations.

The problem here is we were told that the Solidification of Roles was going to be specific to Jobs.

We were told specifically and repeatedly, Directly from Yoshida, that the way our Classes played, as Classes, would not be fundamentally changed.

These Class overhauls, Blatantly disregard that statement which he has made as recently as Last Week and every week prior to that for months now.

Conjurer specifically, is a Glaring example of a Class that no longer, in any way, resembles what it used to be.

Lancer has also been changed so Dramatically that now instead of being a Tactical Damage Dealer they are now FFXI Dark Knight Style Glass Cannons. That not speculation is right there in black and white. They even have the ability that drains your own Health to increase attack power.

The simple fact is Yoshida repeatedly lied by telling us that Our Classes would not be fundamentally changed. He said that it would only be when you equipped a Job stone that your Class would become Something new that is tailored toward party play.

[Starlord]

The problem here is we were told that the Solidification of Roles was going to be specific to Jobs.

We were told specifically and repeatedly, Directly from Yoshida, that the way our Classes played, as Classes, would not be fundamentally changed.

These Class overhauls, Blatantly disregard that statement which he has made as recently as Last Week and every week prior to that for months now.

Conjurer specifically is a Glaring example of a Class that no long in any way resembles what it used to be.

Lancer has also been changed so Dramatically that now instead of being a Tactical Damage Dealer they are now FFXI Dark Knight Style Glass Cannons. That not speculation is right there in black and white. They even have the ability that drains your own Health to increase attack power.

The simple fact is Yoshida repeatedly lied by telling us that Our Classes would not be fundamentally changed. He said that it would only be when you equipped a Job stone that your Class would become Something new that is tailored toward party play.

There you go again, saying he's lying when he's not. Even if it was true.. things change.. maybe he changed his mind? Maybe he was saying what you crybabies wanted to hear, so he can have a few weeks of peace " somewhat". If he said, what he said now in the Live Letter, "this" would still happen. People jumping to conclusions as always.

[Kiote]

There you go again, saying he's lying when he's not. Even if it was true.. things change.. maybe he changed his mind? Maybe he was saying what you crybabies wanted to hear, so he can have a few weeks of peace " somewhat". If he said, what he said now in the Live Letter, "this" would still happen. People jumping to conclusions as always.

I'm not exactly sure where you come from or how you were raised. But where I'm from, Saying one thing and doing the exact opposite is called a LIE.