[dev1206] Class Reforms & Action Lists

[Orophen]

Long post here. Close your eyes if you don't like LENGTH. You 2D monster.

I'm looking at the changes and I see that they have split the elemental nukes between THM and CNJ. I can see why they made these changes, and I don't think this is the end of it to be honest.

It's true that Conjurer seems to lost a majority of its elemental nukes. They're left with Wind and Earth offensive magic. But Conjurer was never an "offensive" class lore-wise anyway. As long as their abilities make use of the elements, it doesn't matter if they have nukes or not. They could've made every single CON spell a buff or heal. As long as it's element based, it still adheres to the lore. Healing spells can also just as easily be Water elemental spells. Although I'm not seeing much in the way of Fire and Thunder element here. But this is only up to level 50. CON could easily pick up other elemental nukes as it gains in levels. Or they can pick up other spells and abilities that are elemental in nature. Even if Earth and Wind remain the only nukes usable by CON, nothing is wrong or out of place here.

About THM, well, the lore has obviously been messed with here. And most of us realized it needed to be messed with if it was going to take on a BLM role. What's more annoying is that it's lost most of its enfeebles. but as has already been pointed out, enfeebling spells/abilities have been spread out among all the classes. So it's not like enfeebling has been removed completely. ARC can Stun, Blind, and Bind. CON can Heavy. LNC can Stun. PUG can Blind, Stop, Slow, and Stun. MRD can Heavy, Weaken Attack, and Amnesia. GLD can stun. And just about everyone and their mom can DoT. So I think we're pretty much well covered for now

But I know what you're thinking. BLM only get 3 elements? What the heavenly hellhole is the deal with that? Well, to begin with, only a handful of FF games ever gave BLM more than Thunder, Fire, and Blizzard. And sometimes later on you got Quake. If they are going more traditional with these jobs, 3 out of 4 so far ain't a bad record. And since the description says THM/BLM uses 6 elements, I have a feeling the others will show up. Just later than those who have played FFXI before are used to. It's not terribad to NOT have every element at your disposal from the very start, when most of you only pick 2 or 3 nukes and stick with them for all of your playing career to begin with. It was even worse in FFXI, when you had every element under the sun but only Thunder and Blizzard were worth using in the end.

[Saiph]

I agree with 14 spells being way to few for magic class. They realy copied this from other MMOS where the mage classes have the same amount of abilities like any other class. The problem is here it doesnt suit Final Fantasy that much.
Giving Conjurer Wind, Earth and Water and giving THM Fire, Lightning and Ice is ok. But restricting mages so much by basicly taking away so many spells makes them just like any DoW class. The only diffrence left is that DoM use MP and DoW use TP.

[Katella_Avenlea]

I'm concerned, but maybe I'm overreacting. I guess we'll have to wait and see.. I'll reserve judgement, but I kinda feel the old FFXI ways creeping up again. I loved FFXI don't get me wrong, but some of the classes with the limitations being placed on them I'm really not sure how they are going to be able to solo or do leves on on their own anymore. The great thing about FFXIV was that you could solo a little bit, and you weren't forced to fight "Easy Prey" mobs for minimal exp when you didn't have enough time to invest in a full party that sitting. You could feel good about what you could accomplish on your own as well as feel awesome about what could be accomplished with a party.

I was hoping they'd stick to what they said and have classes being basically soloable and jobs being for party play, I was really excited for that, but it kinda looks like even the classes are going to be really restricted to things that really just leads into their assigned job's party role. I'm all for getting party type skills on the classes once in awhile, but many of these skills that are being applied to the diminishing skill list seem better for party type situations, which is great and all, but I still want to be able to play on both solo and party, and be able to interchange between the two roles as situations and time allows, and still have an option to be successful.


Kinda wish they would have separated out the skills between classes and jobs more and left each as it's own entity, but with similar attributes..

Just seems our utility classes are just becoming ghetto versions of their assigned jobs in some cases. I would very much like to be mistaken, so if there is something I'm missing or not understanding correctly please (kindly) tell me so I won't be thinking of this wrong, but this is my initial impression with what they've released.

[AdvancedWind]

-snip-

What has led you to believe soloing will be hard? In fact, I can foresee it becoming easier, as many of the "new" skills seem VERY useful, and there's still all the traits, which haven't been revealed yet.

Yeah, maybe conjurer will need to level THM a bit to get more nukes and maybe pug will need to learn those MP refreshers, but it's not like we currently have to level CNJ, PUG, LNC and THM to effectively solo with any class, right? Oh wait, we do.

[Orophen]

Just seems our utility classes are just becoming ghetto versions of their assigned jobs in some cases. I would very much like to be mistaken, so if there is something I'm missing or not understanding correctly please (kindly) tell me so I won't be thinking of this wrong, but this is my initial impression with what they've released.

I'm going to say you're not too far off in what's you're seeing. Yeah, THM is basically a mini-BLM now. No, Sac, raise, or enfeebles. It might as well be a completely different class. As to whether or not it can solo well, that remains to be seen. Sure, you won't be able to solo the way you had before. You'll have to relearn the class. BLMs in FFXI had no problems soloing, and although THM lost heals and enfeebles, it seems as though it's gained a ton of offensive power. So soloing just might involve crowd controlling and nuking things to death. And sure, that's not what the THM populace signed up for. And I honestly sympathize with that. But it's literally the end of the class as you know it. Gotta roll with the punches or move on, cause I can guarantee you not much can possibly be done about it. The same can be said about every other class change. Only a small minority is gonna think these changes suck. And that's not enough to get Yoshi-P's butt moving to change things.

[Katella_Avenlea]

I'm going to say you're not too far off in what's you're seeing. Yeah, THM is basically a mini-BLM now. No, Sac, raise, or enfeebles. It might as well be a completely different class. As to whether or not it can solo well, that remains to be seen. Sure, you won't be able to solo the way you had before. You'll have to relearn the class. BLMs in FFXI had no problems soloing, and although THM lost heals and enfeebles, it seems as though it's gained a ton of offensive power. So soloing just might involve crowd controlling and nuking things to death. And sure, that's not what the THM populace signed up for. And I honestly sympathize with that. But it's literally the end of the class as you know it. Gotta roll with the punches or move on, cause I can guarantee you not much can possibly be done about it. The same can be said about every other class change. Only a small minority is gonna think these changes suck. And that's not enough to get Yoshi-P's butt moving to change things.

Thank you for this, Yes, I plan on rolling with the punches. ^^ The good thing I suppose is that all my classes are still low enough, that re-learning won't be that big of a hardship, and honestly I had a horrible time on Thaumaturge the way it was, so new dynamics for it might actually help. I guess I'll see when 1.20 comes out.

I solo on my archer quite a lot, and am really looking forward to BRD. I've been soloing with a certain rotation, and was most worried over the new description read "They are capable of generating large amounts of damage in brief spans of time, but are less effective the longer a battle drags on" I worry that this means it will be difficult to play this class unless you have someone else in tow. But I guess when you consider the self combo's, maybe that will take the place of my rotation and allow me to do enough damage to continue to solo sometimes too.

*crossing-fingers*

I'm interested. Which class you believe is with 1.20 less soloable as now?

Cross Class Skills:
GLD Abl. 1 - Temporarily reduces damage you sustain and increases enmity generated by actions executed while effect is active.
GLD Abl. 3 (Self AoE) - Temporarily increases the defense of all party members within range. Generates massive enmity.
GLD Abl. 5 - Increases block rate and grants TP for each block made while effect is active.
GLD Abl. 6 - Increases target's enmity. Traits may trigger an AoE and a chance to inflict Stun.
GLD WS 1 - Melee attack. Damage increased when executed from in front of the target.
GLD WS 7 - Shield attack. Chance to inflict Stun.

MRD Abl. 1 - Increases target enmity. Traits may trigger a chance to reduce target's attack power.
MRD Abl. 2 - Increases parry rate. Effect fades upon parrying an attack.
MRD Abl. 3 - Grants Absorb HP effect to next attack.
MRD WS 1 - Melee attack. Accuracy increased when executed from in front of the target.
MRD WS 3 - Melee attack. Damage increased when executed from the right or left of the target.
MRD WS 6 - Melee attack. Chance to inflict Heavy when executed from behind the target.
MRD WS 9 (Frontal AoE) - Attacks targets in a cone before you. Can only be used immediately after parrying an attack.

PUG Abl. 1 - Restores HP.
PUG Abl. 2 - Makes your next attack a crit when executed from behind the target. Traits may trigger INT bonus.
PUG Abl. 4 - Increases evasion and restores MP when an attack is evaded. Effect fades upon evading an attack or after a certain period of time elapses.
PGL WS 1 - Melee attack. Damage increased when executed from in front of the target.
PGL WS 2 - Melee attack. Chance to inflict Blind when executed from the right or left of the target.Combo: PGL WS 1, Bonus: Increased damage.
PGL WS 5 - Melee attack. Chance to inflict Stun when executed from behind the target.
PGL WS 7 - Melee attack. Accuracy increased when executed from the right or left of the target.Combo: PGL WS 6, Bonus: Increased damage.

LNC Abl. 1 - Grants TP. TP does not diminish out of combat while effect is active.
LNC Abl. 5 - Sacrifices HP to increase damage of next attack.
LNC Abl. 6 - Sacrifices HP to reduce recast time of next weaponskill.
LNC WS 1 - Melee attack. Accuracy increased when executed from in front of the target.
LNC WS 2 (Self AoE) - AoE attack.Combo: LNC WS 1, Bonus: Chance to inflict Stun.
LNC WS 4 - Melee attack. Chance to inflict Stun when target is attacking you.Combo: LNC WS 1, Bonus: Increased Stun duration.
LNC WS 5 - Melee attack with low accuracy. Crit rate increased when executed from behind the target.
LNC WS 6 - Melee attack with low accuracy. Damage increased when executed from the right or left of the target.Combo: LNC WS 5, Bonus: Increased crit rate.
LNC WS 8 - Melee attack. Can only be used immediately after missing an attack.

ARC Abl. 1 - Increases accuracy.
ARC Abl. 2 - Reduces enmity and increases TP generated by next action.
ARC Abl. 3 - Consumes MP to evade a single ranged or magic attack.
ARC Abl. 4 - Reduces enmity.
ARC WS 2 - Ranged attack. Chance to inflict Heavy.Combo: WS 1, Bonus: Increased Heavy duration.

CON Abl. 1 - Grants AoE to next enhancing magic spell, but increases cast time.
CON Abl. 2 - Temporarily halves enmity and gradually restores MP.
CON Mag. 1 - Restores a portion of the target's HP.
CON Mag. 4 - Resurrects the target. Traits may trigger prevention of Weakness and Brink of Death effects.
CON Mag. 5 - Creates a barrier around the target that prevents a fixed amount of damage.
CON Mag. 6 (Target AoE) - Increases the defense of all party members within range of the target.
CON Mag. 8 - Deals wind damage to the target. Chance to inflict DoT effect.
CON Mag. 10 - Deals earth damage to the target. Chance to reduce evasion against earth magic.

THM Abl. 1 - Increases magic accuracy of next spell.
THM Abl. 2 - Increases range of next spell.
THM Abl. 3 - Gradually increases magic crit rate. Effect fades upon a successful crit.
THM Abl. 5 - Reduces MP cost of next attack magic spell by half, and restores MP when cast is complete.
THM Mag. 2 - Restores MP in proportion to damage sustained. Casts cannot be interrupted while effect is active.
THM Mag. 5 (Target AoE) - Deals fire damage to all enemies within range of the target.
THM Mag. 6 (Target AoE) - Deals fire damage to all enemies within range of the target.Combo: THM Magic 5, Bonus: Reduced cast time.
THM Mag. 8 - Deals lightning damage to target.

What has led you to believe soloing will be hard? In fact, I can foresee it becoming easier, as many of the "new" skills seem VERY useful, and there's still all the traits, which haven't been revealed yet.

Yeah, maybe conjurer will need to level THM a bit to get more nukes and maybe pug will need to learn those MP refreshers, but it's not like we currently have to level CNJ, PUG, LNC and THM to effectively solo with any class, right? Oh wait, we do.

You both are correct. It might be fine as long as we can cross some skills, which is what I do now. It is one of the reasons why I don't have a level 50 anything, because I like having a well rounded character and play a little of everything.

As long as I can still solo when my friends aren't on, and as long as not every thing requires me to beg someone to come help me because my class is too feeble, I'll be ok. I don't mind having to work a little harder than other classes, I just don't want to be so restricted to the point that I'm just a healer and can't viably defend myself. Get tired of being a damsel in distress when it comes to being a healer.. you know what I mean? I just hope that the levels in which we gain our basic offensive spells won't be too high, that aero and stone will be worth something, and that some gentle revamping of the lore occurs in order to make things make a bit more sense. Are wind, earth and water astral? Maybe they could adjust the conjurer lore to be that they are attuned with the Astral Elements..(if that is even correct) .

[Hulan]

You know, because of this debate, I went back and looked over the abilities with an eye specifically for an offensive CNJ build. I think it has a lot of potential. Grab the cross class spells and abilities from THM and a fill your remaining two slots with ARC emnity- abilities. Between CNJ's ability to increase it's own offensive magic power, and reduce/regain MP over time, it could be a real powerhouse offensively. You sacrifice WHM, but that's only to be expected; you can't have the best of both worlds.

[AdvancedWind]

You know, because of this debate, I went back and looked over the abilities with an eye specifically for an offensive CNJ build. I think it has a lot of potential. Grab the cross class spells and abilities from THM and a fill your remaining two slots with ARC emnity- abilities. Between CNJ's ability to increase it's own offensive magic power, and reduce/regain MP over time, it could be a real powerhouse offensively. You sacrifice WHM, but that's only to be expected; you can't have the best of both worlds.

Yep, that's one the points of these changes. In fact, it looks they managed to keep the armory system and skill mixing relevant, and at the same time made each class unique.

[SmokeyTheSequel]

I only have one thought on the mage stuff. Since CON is going to have all the heals and the nukes split down the middle, where is the heals for THM? Seems like THM is getting the real shaft with this because they are loosing debuffs,heals,raise etc and gaining 3 elemental spells... Why is this? Is it because you are making a new mage class? If it is, why are you once again gimping one class for another? I see a lot of people had a problem with CON losing its "lore" because they thought it was going to lose its nuking capabilities but it seems that they have catered to that and forgot about THM completly. This stuff is not final I know, but to me it just seems like they are really dumbbing down our classes to bring about these jobs. I was all for this change but now that I see what "Change" really is, I dont want it.. and its probably not going to change much anyway, unlike our current president that can be voted out after 4 years of promised change...

[AlexNiculaie]

Classes will be able to equip Abilities from other Classes, allowing some openness. I imagine Job Abilities will supplant cross Class ones, rather than just expanding Class Abilities, thus focusing a Class' role. So, not seeing how we were lied to. Classes freeform but with distinct identity; Jobs fulfill specific role. Pretty straight forward.