Warriors need MORE damage

[shao32]

So remove crit is xeno Next step bcs he dont like the adictive FC cant always hit the biggest number?
I know the question is out of context and is not what he really say, but for me he opinión is like a complaing for just complaing.
more when we are just in the first gear tier of the expansion and crit rate Will be increse and being more stable in the future

[Aana]

So Warriors are asking for their damage to be less burst (read less variable) damage and thus more sustained even if that would be an overall lowering of their expected damage?

Or you are asking for your damage to stay the same but less variable and therefore less effected by raid buffs?

I am just making sure were all talking about the same thing. Lots of "Heres the problem with war (Xeno link)" with no explanation followed by size of the curve vs variability and other confusion. What I described is what i understand that point to be. (Bursty nature makes war more reliant on RNG at any given instance and therefore 'unfun' and fixing it by lowering said burst and increasing base combos).

If thats the option were considering:
Personally? Why bother.

What point is there in shifting damage distribution without changing it? We already have 2/3 tanks that could be considered sustained damage. Why homogenize them for a non-balance reason? If you like sustained damage you have a job for you. If you like bursty damage theres a tank for you. I think war's unpredictablility is right in character with releasing the beast. You let it run wild out of your control for a short while before you have to cage it again or else you might loose any control you had over it. Its not a fine tuned machine that does what you planned.

It fits the class imo, it is a distinct trait in feel/style from the other tanks. Its not obscenely overpowered (compared to pld anyway, and even if it does need/get a nerf, it should be in numbers, not homogenization).

Theres a little RNG? Who cares. This game isnt starcraft where peoples livelihoods are determined by a tank landing a % shot on a highground enemy to win the game.

[Chrono_Rising]

I actually agree with you here. I think any move away from burst damage is going to lower warriors damage without constant tweaking each patch to make up for the lost synergy with raid buffs. Eyeballing a sample of people’s numbers it doesn’t even look like the variability within daily runs is even that high. Maybe 50 dps in either direction.

[Aana]

I actually agree with you here. I think any move away from burst damage is going to lower warriors damage without constant tweaking each patch to make up for the lost synergy with raid buffs. Eyeballing a sample of people’s numbers it doesn’t even look like the variability within daily runs is even that high. Maybe 50 dps in either direction.

Yeah, I had to make a completely ridiculous example to have any real variability (hits in zerk mode do 91x a normal hit lulz). I think its more in peoples heads than actual problem. Theres an excessive focus on openers in this game, but even having a mediocre 1st 30 sec opener has a very small impact on a 10 minute fight. Each burst window after that has even less impact. This whole thing is really overblown. Its true in theory/principle but the in-game effect is pretty small.

I personally have an extremely low crit set of gear (845 luzl) and still regularly hit 80s in my (very mediocre) group. I am currently the paragon of unreliable crits. We have no drg, low crit gear, only run sch for 1 tier, etc. This 'might' be a problem in 2.4 when we can really stack insane amounts of secondaries, but if youre stacking that much crit then your rate will be more reliable and make 'bad' runs even less likely. RNG might variable now, but the effect is low. Later with more crit available crits will be a bigger part of your damage, but the reliability of those crits will go up too. Its a minor and self correcting problem.

[DaulBan]

Later with more crit available crits will be a bigger part of your damage, but the reliability of those crits will go up too. Its a minor and self correcting problem.

I think Xeno pointing to crits and being like 'this is annoying' might stem more from the feeling of being a WAR in HW and having the single hardest hitting abilities in the game and sort of losing out on that with the changes to how things work in SB. It's still more than possible to hit the 33k+ crits on an FC but it's not going to make a huge huge difference over the course of an entire fight. That said, if you're going for exceptionally high rankings on fflogs for example you do worry about where those crits land because unlike DRK or PLD where the damage spread is a lot flatter, WAR invests a lot in their admittedly numerous fell cleaves.

But if you're like me and trying to fight your way to the top of the pile on Neo Exdeath it's of great interest what exactly gets crit and what doesn't. If you look at this list you can see what I mean with people being really close to each other in the #5->#12 ranking.

[Chrono_Rising]

I think Xeno pointing to crits and being like 'this is annoying' might stem more from the feeling of being a WAR in HW and having the single hardest hitting abilities in the game and sort of losing out on that with the changes to how things work in SB. It's still more than possible to hit the 33k+ crits on an FC but it's not going to make a huge huge difference over the course of an entire fight. That said, if you're going for exceptionally high rankings on fflogs for example you do worry about where those crits land because unlike DRK or PLD where the damage spread is a lot flatter, WAR invests a lot in their admittedly numerous fell cleaves.

But if you're like me and trying to fight your way to the top of the pile on Neo Exdeath it's of great interest what exactly gets crit and what doesn't. If you look at this list you can see what I mean with people being really close to each other in the #5->#12 ranking.

The funny thing is if you take that list and organize it in terms of hardest hitting moves critting, the order of crit % does not match the order that list is in from number 1 to 12. So I don't see this as proving the point, I see it as counter evidence.

[Lyth]

There's no point going back after the fact and pointing to individual attacks that didn't crit. Probability only applies to future events. There's probably more variation that results from the random allocation of fight-specific mechanics and from variation in card draws than there is from the odd crit. And you can only really consider those things when you're absolutely certain that you've optimised everything else. You can forget about crit variation if your Berserk window is missing part of TA/Hypercharge, for example.

Was Xeno's point that playing WAR well is more about luck than skill?

[Chrono_Rising]

I would also like to point out that the list is partially organized by the fell cleaves per second those warriors were able to achieve. Obviously this is not a random sample and as such we cannot really perform stats on this, but I think it is an interesting observation that the highest dps is more closely related to Fell Cleaves per second (I love that unit of measurement) in the fight than the crit percentage on said fell cleaves.

[whiskeybravo]

Was Xeno's point that playing WAR well is more about luck than skill?

To me it seems more about - When you're already playing well (and as you stated "when you're absolutely certain that you've optimised everything else"), getting a top log is more about luck than skill. In all reality it's only a top 1% problem, and could probably be said of every job. (ie, higher crit/DH % = higher parses)

[aleph_null]

It’s the same for every other job and every previous expansion as well. The most extreme case would be faust z in a9s, that fight is so short that you can only do 3-4 fell cleaves, any non crit fell cleave in berserk and you can say bye to good parse.

Having bursty dps comes with the bigger benefit of aligning raid buffs and less dps loss due to mechanics since you’ll time your burst windows such that mechanics happen during your low dps windows.