When will we get the PVP system for PVE ?

[Vaer]

Who in the seven hells limited anything to 3 auto buttons?

I'm calling them auto buttons because they auto change for you. This is specifically for the combos since this is what we are talking about, not that the entire job is just 3 buttons.

I've already answered that (and add something after Vaer's concern) so that MNK would lose nothing.

• 3 slots.
• All slots change according to your form
• Perfect Balance stop Form changing from WS but make Form Shift instant and not trigger GCD.

What is currently the "best" opener for MNK ? I'll see how it would work with my suggestions.

Not a monk main but the one I usually seen thrown around has the following things inside the PB window and the PB window starts right after the Demolish you use on pull. ogcds omitted since combo buttons wouldn't really stop you from using ogcds.

[PB] Snap Snap Dragon Kick Twin Snakes True Strike [/PB] Bootshine

The green is ok with your suggestions since they are tier 3 abilities, the rest of them wouldn't be usable. The oGCDs are also taken up by Diversion, Pot, Riddle of Fire and Internal Release. Sticking Form Shift in there a bunch of times (about 4 times) would be tough.

Going by this.

[Reynhart]

[PB] Snap Snap Dragon Kick Twin Snakes True Strike [/PB] Bootshine

Ok, so, we'll state again how Perfect Balance would work and synergize with Form Shift.

• Puts you in Coerul Form
• No automatic form change after a WS
• No delay and no GCD to Form Shift. Basically, you'd cast Form Shift as quickly as Mudras.

So, the opener would be : [PB] Snap Snap Form Shift Dragon Kick Form Shift Twin Snakes True Strike Form Shift Form Shift [/PB] Bootshine

Sure, you'd have to do more actions, but you could still do it. It could get more complicated if you have some CD to pop between weapon skills.

Yes I get it, you want every combination of those 6 skills but in reality not all of those 8 are needed.

This would be "reducing options" and, even if some options are not optimal, it would make MNK more shallow to play.

[Vaer]

Ok, so, we'll state again how Perfect Balance would work and synergize with Form Shift.

• Puts you in Coerul Form
• No automatic form change after a WS
• No delay and no GCD to Form Shift. Basically, you'd cast Form Shift as quickly as Mudras.

So, the opener would be : [PB] Snap Snap Form Shift Dragon Kick Form Shift Twin Snakes True Strike Form Shift Form Shift [/PB] Bootshine

Sure, you'd have to do more actions, but you could still do it. It could get more complicated if you have some CD to pop between weapon skills.

The oGCDs are also taken up by Diversion, Pot, Riddle of Fire and Internal Release. Sticking Form Shift in there a bunch of times would be tough. You would clip the GCD a bunch of times trying to jam all that in there and probably lose out on 1 or 2 of them.

[Reynhart]

The oGCDs are also taken up by Diversion, Pot, Riddle of Fire and Internal Release. Sticking Form Shift in there a bunch of times would be tough. You would clip the GCD a bunch of times trying to jam all that in there and probably lose out on 1 or 2 of them.

I haven't played MNK at high level, but I have no issue casting 2-step ninjutsu between GCD as a NIN. With Riddle Of Fire greatly slowing your attack speed, you don't think you could fit two form shifts here and there ?
Something like : Diversion+PB - Snap - Pot - snap - IR+Form Shift - DK, etc... ?
Disclaimer : I don't know if the opener actually starts before PB, so I'm just considering your opener as it is.

My fear with the idea of slamming combo's onto one button is that in the end most classes with heavy amounts of combo's would all start to look something like 1-1-1 2-2-2 3-3-3. The amount of buttons to me right now feels nice and yes they will need to be cautious moving forward.

I'd say the only problem with this, is kind of visual monotony. For example, as a PLD, you use Fast Blade for your three combos and you use Riot Blade for your two DPS combo. If each combo would use 3 specific skills, you could technically have 9 different WS.

Spinning Slash > Gust Slash > Aeolian Edge
Spinning Slash > Gust Slash > Shadow Fang
Spinning Slash > Gust Slash > Armor Crush

This shouldn't really be a problem. Generally, when you start a combo, you already know how you'll finish it. Besides, by having three separate combo, you could potentially adjust the second WS of one of the combo so that you could have an easier time maintaining one of the effect, without requiring an additional slot. You could even make one of the combo only two steps, since it would still require proper planning by preventing last minute switch.

[Vaer]

I haven't played MNK at high level, but I have no issue casting 2-step ninjutsu between GCD as a NIN. With Riddle Of Fire greatly slowing your attack speed, you don't think you could fit two form shifts here and there ?
Something like : Diversion+PB - Snap - Pot - snap - IR+Form Shift - DK, etc... ?
Disclaimer : I don't know if the opener actually starts before PB, so I'm just considering your opener as it is.

Full opener reference here.

Pot is used to line up with all the other buffs same with IR/RoF. You could probably move diversion up if you wanted but you would end up triple weaving where a double is already pretty tough if you aren't close to the server. The beginning mostly doesn't have anything because the double snap lets you hit GL3 with the demolish at the beginning so you have the damage bonus before you pop everything else. Kick for blunt dmg and snakes for damage buff then the rest of the stuff with the pot on with the rest of the party utility.

Obv you could just do another opener but your suggestions would probably change how this opener would look for sure.

DRG has the least to lose since their combo is pretty static so it would work well for them. Some of the other jobs have some psuedo branching combos where it wouldn't reduce the buttons by as much as it would for DRG.

I mean they could change the rest of the jobs that could benefit from this change and leave MNK as is but I personally don't think that would be fair.

[Anemone_Valesti]

....

- If you miss, it doesnt change but it would mean you actually have to pay attention to your skills or notice the miss ( Which shouldn't happen unless you are under level I think or if the boss deck u with a loss of accuracy skill lol ).
- Something would have to be done with perfect balance
- tad medicated, so this is as far as I go lol.

Im not on either sides of this, just here to help clarify some things ( Specifically regarding MNK since the uses of the skills...well the skills themselves are directly tied into the stances )

(Note: Apparently the Gif works in Preview post, but when posting it...it doesnt...unless its just me lol)
(Note 2: Derp I didnt loop the Gif lol. My Baaaaaaaaaad xD)

[Reynhart]

Super amazing gif

Yes, this is what I mean.

I mean, according some people here there's no skill in pressing buttons, so why are pressing them at all ?

Because there is skill in planning and ordering skills...not buttons.

Obv you could just do another opener but your suggestions would probably change how this opener would look for sure.

As I said, and as Miste could find it acceptable, those kind of changes would probably be tied to the release of a new expansion, so the opener would have to include all the new tweaks.

Some of the other jobs have some psuedo branching combos where it wouldn't reduce the buttons by as much as it would for DRG.

NIN would only lose 2 slots at best, but, again, it could gain 4 "new" low level skills while requiring only 3 slots total.
Spinning Edge -> Gust Slash -> Aeolian Edge
New opener 1 -> New follower 1 -> Shadow Fang
New opener 2 -> New follower 2 -> Armor Crusher

More skills = easier precise adjustement to potencies.

Besides, in ARR, the longest combo contained 3 steps. In HW, DRG increased it to 4, and to 5 in SB. We might see other jobs having 4-step combo in the next expansion, with no new slot required.