When will we get the PVP system for PVE ?

[HyoMinPark]

No, please. I absolutely detest this idea. Just from doing PvP on BRD, and the skillsets/combos available to BRD, I would absolutely not want the same sort of system to creep into my PvE BRD play. So I really hope that this doesn’t happen.

[Reynhart]

Just from doing PvP on BRD, and the skillsets/combos available to BRD, I would absolutely not want the same sort of system to creep into my PvE BRD play.

Again, we would lose no skill and no combo at all. We could even gain skills.

Besides, BRD doesn't even have combos, so he wouldn't even be changed by that kind of system.

[HyoMinPark]

Again, we would lose no skill and no combo at all. We could even gain skills.

Besides, BRD doesn't even have combos, so he wouldn't even be changed by that kind of system.

I’m well aware that BRD doesn’t have a set 1-2-3 combo rotation; it is purely a priority rotation, one that the current PvP system does not allow. How would BRDs know that SE wouldn’t just copy-paste the existing system into PvE for BRDs if this change was ever made?

As the current set up for BRD in PvP is, you can only use Barrage in Army’s Paeon (the absolute worst song to use it in because you always want to use it within Raging Strikes, which you use during Minuet); you can only use Bloodletter during Minuet (huge DPS loss during your other two songs, especially since Mage’s has the River of Blood trait implemented in it). And what if these skills remained locked behind the “song locks” the PvP system has? What about applying Straight Shot every 30 seconds? As it is now, you have 1 option: Straight Shot > Heavy Shot > Straight Shot > Heavy Shot...makes applying Straight Shot overly repetitive, and it’s a 10 potency loss from just using Heavy Shot; and good luck getting that Refulgent Arrow proc, which only procs off of Heavy Shot procing Straighter Shot. Same with your DoTs; there’s no IJ either, so how would that be implemented? I’d rather not go back to having to repeatedly apply DoTs to a boss when I could just IJ instead. But are they going to consolidate DoTs > IJ, or just leave IJ standalone?

I’ve never been a fan of the new condensed PvP system, especially since it took away all but 8~10 of my skills. What’s to say the same wouldn’t happen if this was brought over into PvE? Also, the system as it is doesn’t prevent us from learning new skills. Some jobs could use some trimming down (why they gave RDM Tether is beyond me...it’s completely useless 90% of the time, and NIN needs some sort of help with its button bloat), but some don’t have button bloat.

The only combined skills they put on BRD in PVP are the dots, so not much would change anyways.

False. Straight Shot and Heavy Shot are combined. Bloodletter is locked and can only be used in Minuet; Barrage can only be used in Army’s Paeon. Your songs are not independent, but consolidated and in a set rotation: Minuet > Army’s Paeon > Minuet > Army’s Paeon...rinse and repeat. And songs have two rotations depending on if you are single-targeting or AOEing, so consolidating the songs in a set rotation would not work in PvE.

I would suggest doing a bit of research on other jobs before just assuming “nothing would change”, because you were misinformed on BRD in PvP.

[Reynhart]

PvP skillset butchering

That's why we've repeated that this is in no way a suggestion to use the same skill set for PvE. We need to keep a lot of skills to give each job enough depth.
It's only to adress the skill bloat that is partially because of the combo system, by fusing skills that are always used together in the same order.

The only combined skills they put on BRD in PVP are the dots, so not much would change anyways.

Bloodletter, Pitch Perfect and Barrage are fused too, apparently...that's huge.

[HyoMinPark]

Bloodletter, Pitch Perfect and Barrage are fused too, apparently...that's huge.

I was partially mistaken in my post since I’m going on 24 hours of no sleep; correcting/clarifying now:

—Minuet and Army’s Paeon are in a set rotation (Mage’s Ballad, where art thou).
—Stormbite/Caustic Bite are consolidated.
—Heavy Shot/Straight Shot are consolidated; this would make RA fishing a pain, and it would also just be repetitive reapplication of your Straight Shot buff just to Heavy Shot.
—Bloodletter, while it cannot be used during Army’s or Minuet (I’m crying right now), changes to either Pitch Perfect or Barrage depending on your song.

However, I think the Job Guide is incorrect because it says that Bloodletter becomes Pitch Perfect during Army’s, but Pitch Perfect can only be used during Minuet (using it because I am not at home):

Delivers an attack with a potency of 750.
Cannot use while under the effect of Army's Paeon or the Wanderer's Minuet

※Action changes to Pitch Perfect while under the effect of Army's Paeon.
※Action changes to Barrage while under the effect of the Wanderer's Minuet.

Pretty sure that tooltip is incorrect. It makes no sense for Bloodletter to be PP in Army’s when you can’t use the skill, but maybe it’s just the way the combo button rotates the skills so that PP is there when you hit Minuet, and Barrage is ready for when you hit Army’s. But then that means you can only use one PP during Minuet before it changes to Barrage... Maybe it’s because I’m tired that this is just not computing right now; doesn’t help I can’t confirm, since I won’t be home for another 4 hours. Meh. But this is even more abhorrent to imagine in a drawn-out PvE encounter...

Pitch Perfect can only be used during Minuet (as in PvE, so that’s fine).
Barrage can only be used during Army’s Paeon (worst song to Barrage anything in really... since Raging is always used with Minuet for the PP burst and you want to Barrage during RS for obvious reasons).

The only thing I like about the PvP system is that Repelling Shot deals damage again. DoT consolidation would be fine, so long as they give me IJ on a separate button. Even though multidotting you usually only do Stormbite on 3~5, Caustic on one for Sidewinder usage. All this being said, though, I still do not like the idea of the PvP system coming into PvE.

The “Create your Combo” could be a reasonable compromise, I suppose. So long as the use of it was completely optional.

Still better than 3.X's caster Bard. I doubt SE would change Bard that dramatically and if they did I'm sure they would make other adjustments to compensate for the changes including potency of attacks and cool down timers. Besides, Bard doesn't have the button bloat problem anyway so that's one of the few jobs that would get hit. They're asking for combos to be condensed, not to implement the entire PvP structure over to PvE. In addition, MCH is more likely to get an awkward change than Bard would. Since you can use their 1, 2, 3 combo out of order with ammo and hold the procs.

You say they wouldn’t change BRD that much, but it is the only job that has been completely overhauled twice: once for Heavensward, and then again for Stormblood. I would take bowmage any day over a consolidated combo BRD, to be honest.

If SE were to implement a PvP-esque system into PvE, I highly doubt they would want to do it to just a few jobs; I could easily see them applying to all jobs “to be fair” and so that all jobs are “on par” with one another.

[Miste]

Again, we would lose no skill and no combo at all. We could even gain skills.

Again, MNK says hi.

There is no way to design this system around MNK without causing MNK to lose some of its choices/options and therefore gameplay. Consolidating MNK combos into one button would require 8 buttons, one for each combination. This leads to more buttons than the 6 MNK has now for their combos which solves nothing and only necessitates more buttons than before which is the opposite of what you all are complaining about.

All of the solutions you have posted so far alters how MNK plays and removes options.

I support the idea. As a controller user if I can fit everything onto one hot bar the better. I fail to see how a 1 2 3 combo is more exciting than pressing the same button 3 times. I find the button bloat more stressful than challenging. Not like you're ever going to use that combo out of order unless the combo breaks off into multiple combos such as tanks. But in the case of Dragoon, I'm all for both combos being attached to a single button.

I also play with controller so you would be assuming incorrect if you assumed I don't like the idea because I use keyboard and mouse or something.

If they changed to this system I would no longer sub to this game. That's how I feel. I mean people keep oversimplifying the 1-2-3 thing. No job in this game performs well if you just spam 1-2-3 over and over. Bad comparison.

As for DRG I understand their combos follow specific patterns, but none of the other jobs work exactly like DRG. If the system cannot be implemented for all jobs in the same way then it falls short and can cause balance issues or causing some jobs to lose options/abilities because it cannot be implemented properly around their original game play.

[Reynhart]

Again, MNK says hi.

I've already answered that (and add something after Vaer's concern) so that MNK would lose nothing.

• 3 slots.
• All slots change according to your form
• Perfect Balance stop Form changing from WS but make Form Shift instant and not trigger GCD.

[Vivi_Bushido]

Again, MNK says hi.

There is no way to design this system around MNK without causing MNK to lose some of its choices/options and therefore gameplay. Consolidating MNK combos into one button would require 8 buttons, one for each combination. This leads to more buttons than the 6 MNK has now for their combos which solves nothing and only necessitates more buttons than before which is the opposite of what you all are complaining about.

All of the solutions you have posted so far alters how MNK plays and removes options.

This may be true however Monk has already been getting left in the dust as far as new skills go as it is in each expansion. Perhaps if they redesigned Monk like they did to Bard, they could rearrange the order that some of those combos get used and even add more to the end of the combo so it doesn't keep branching out so much. You could condense Dragon Kick and Demolish down like they did with Fang and Claw and Slashing Edge for Ninja and then in 5.0 add additional skills that make the job more unique and less about combo paths and positions or add on more of those but into a single combo instead and add a new gimmick to the job perhaps using chakra.

In my opinion, difficulty should be on the bosses, not how a job preforms.

[Miste]

This may be true however Monk has already been getting left in the dust as far as new skills go as it is in each expansion. Perhaps if they redesigned Monk like they did to Bard, they could rearrange the order that some of those combos get used and even add more to the end of the combo so it doesn't keep branching out so much.

In my opinion, difficulty should be on the bosses, not how a job preforms.

If they want to change how MNK plays in the future then we'll see, but what I am getting at is I don't want them to change MNK SOLELY for this system to work.

If they want to change MNK because they think it needs to be changed and because they want to improve it, great, but don't change it solely to add a in my opinion bad system like this.

In my opinion, difficulty should be based on the boss and on your skill on your job.

I've already answered that (and add something after Vaer's concern) so that MNK would lose nothing.

Yeah and I already said "all your solutions alter how MNK plays".

This solution still alters how MNK currently plays. So no you didn't solve my problem with your ideas.

[Reynhart]

This solution still alters how MNK currently plays. So no you didn't solve my problem with your ideas.

You said :

There is no way to design this system around MNK without causing MNK to lose some of its choices/options and therefore gameplay.

and

All of the solutions you have posted so far alters how MNK plays and removes options.

Non of these sentences are true since it wouldn't remove any option. Now, if your concern is "I could still do the same but differently, therefore I don't like this" I'd say it's kind of a nitpick, since you could still do everything you can. And, let's dream a little, it would even allow for a 4th WS option on each form without requiring 3 additionnal slots.

I dunno, PB right now allows you to use anything even with no form at all, so now i have to keep shifting around just to get to the buttons

Not if PB prevent form shifting from WS. You go to Coeurl, and, if you don't use Form Shift, you stay there. You use it once with no delay at all to switch to Opo-Opo, and stay until the next Form Shift, etc...