Healers are way too strong in large scale PvP.

[Lorielle]

the other day i was with my astro with 4 dps chasing me and not able of kill me, its weird in the feast i get killed pretty fast when 2 dps +1 tank is chasing me... even 2 dps can kill a healer if burst is coordinated.

They don't have the means to actually properly CC you. Your area of movement is also much larger with threats all around. The issue comes with healers healing EACH OTHER that makes it asinine. Because you can't CC them all. 2 Second Stuns/Silences and a 10 second immunity? What kind of balance is this?

[Rufalus]

Healers should be SUPPORT, with their main strength being their ability to increase the strength and survivability of their allies (you know, that whole 'team-work' thing), not their ability to go frontline and laugh off almost anything short of 1-shot. And if they want healers to be able to survive burst damage, then surely that's what Tanks are for; {Cover} anyone?

That's a really good point. Why are healers better at tanking than tanks. They should be lower defense than they do / take more dmg per hit and need to coordinate with actual tanks to survive being focused by dps. A party with only healers should not be so effective at survival.

And imo melee dps should have defense raised so they are a bit more tanky, otherwise why not just use ranged dps for the huge advantage that fighting from range brings in large-scale pvp compared to the risk of being deep in melee range.

[kensatsu]

They don't have the means to actually properly CC you. Your area of movement is also much larger with threats all around. The issue comes with healers healing EACH OTHER that makes it asinine. Because you can't CC them all. 2 Second Stuns/Silences and a 10 second immunity? What kind of balance is this?

I was telling about 1vs4, nobody heal me. i know for sure dps is doing nothing exept push 1,1,1 in this case. The problem come also from players don't taking this mode serious and do whatever they want to do.

But its a other thing, i would be glad it happen in the feast XD. but no players is more bullying to healer in the feast.
Btw most of rival wings games i see now got in each team lot of healers, Players tend to balance the games themself because they want to win.
You can reduce the healer potency i think it will remain the same, healers stacked will be hard to get down no matter what. At this rate you may want no healer.

[Wintersandman]

Ok any Cruise Chaser trying to cast into the Generator Room is just laughable. I think it is funny because I can go kill them while they try to target me or just out range them. One Brute Justice can kill a healer or group of healers instantly. The Mega Beam can take them out in one shot.

I have had me and another healer distract 3 healers from a generator while 2 DPS came in and wiped them out.

I have been killed by a DRK and 2 DPS that were coordinated while held off 5 DPS that were uncoordinated. They could have killed me multiple times. But the Bard silences when I am full.

So I don't think healers are overpowered and that people do need to get good and get coordinated.

It's like watching someone on your team zerg in on an Oppressor into a group of enemies and expecting to survive. Can't help stupid. Also can't make anything idiot proof because they always build a better idiot.

[Rufalus]

So I don't think healers are overpowered and that people do need to get good and get coordinated.

I think when we're talking about dps needing to get good rather than healers get good, it shows which way the balance is. The dps basically need a higher skill level than the healer they are fighting, who doesn't need to coordinate with anybody to just keep themselves alive for a long time unless a disproportionate amount of people waste their time clearing out the healer/s. If there are many healers and each one takes more than 2 dps to deal with, they are wasting a lot of resources to counter. So yeah it's possible to KO healers before they are a problem but that's not the way it usually goes when skill level is equal. I'm liking the idea that healers should be more frail and tanks should have more focus on cover-type abilities forcing a coordination between tanks and healers. I was just messing around with WHM and noticed it has 3 mitigation tools... protect, benison and a 3rd one as an option to pick. I don't think they should have that many mitigation options - that's a tank's job.

[Wintersandman]

I think when we're talking about dps needing to get good rather than healers get good, it shows which way the balance is. The dps basically need a higher skill level than the healer they are fighting, who doesn't need to coordinate with anybody to just keep themselves alive for a long time unless a disproportionate amount of people waste their time clearing out the healer/s. If there are many healers and each one takes more than 2 dps to deal with, they are wasting a lot of resources to counter. So yeah it's possible to KO healers before they are a problem but that's not the way it usually goes when skill level is equal. I'm liking the idea that healers should be more frail and tanks should have more focus on cover-type abilities forcing a coordination between tanks and healers. I was just messing around with WHM and noticed it has 3 mitigation tools... protect, benison and a 3rd one as an option to pick. I don't think they should have that many mitigation options - that's a tank's job.

I would call garbage on that as well as I have taken plenty of healers as DPS. There are sooo many bad healers out there, they may live but the dps around them die.

I watched me (healer), another healer and 2 DPS take out 3 healers at generator. So that isn't 2 DPS per heal. I have also watched a DRK take out two DPS but there is no outcry there. A good warrior, DRK or PLD can take on 2 DPS just as a Healer can. This whole post feels like an outcry a DPS can't solo a healer. It honestly shouldn't be able to. This is a team game and not a 1v1 match.

[Zojha]

So I don't think healers are overpowered and that people do need to get good and get coordinated.

The very fact that you need to coordinate against healers in the first place whereas such is not required against any other job or role in the game all by itself makes them overpowered.
In fact, you also need to coordinate against Brute Justice, don't you? Does that make Brute Justice more, less or equally powerful to your average non-mech player? Surely it's balanced with regular players, just gotta git gut and get coordinated. Prepare Adlo and Blackest Night and Mega Beam can't even kill you, it is certainly not overpowered! There's no real reason to even have the restrictions it has.
And a fun fact while we're at Brute Justice: The same Brute Justice you mention can also kill a Ranged DPS or a group of Ranged DPS and a Melee or a group of Melees instantly, because the Mega Beam can take them out in one shot. What does that say about Ranged DPS, Melees and Healers exactly? Surely it means tanks are overpowered... or something.

And did you further know that you can also kill a DPS or tank via coordinated CC and burst? Surely that means we can safely quintuple the damage of DPS. Or bump healer's damage spell up to 10k potency. Or whatever, anything goes so long as CC and burst still beats them. Or could it be that focused CC and burst has absolutely nothing to do with the power of the job subjected to it, neither one way nor the other? That this is a highly flawed argument to use in any way?

In fact, could it possibly be that this entire line of arguing is asinine? Frankly: It is. And yet, people constantly use it to defend healers, over and over and over.

And the "team game" argument is terrible as well - The jobs with the highest group synergy also have the highest solo potential. If you're balancing for a team, you need to make jobs with better group synergy less powerful, not more. For DPS in PvE, that's common sense - If you get trick attack to buff the raid, you personal throughput needs to be lower so that your total contribution is the same. If you get AoE balance, you need to pay with something else. And yet, monks who bring nothing to the team but damage have a lesser weight than healers who bring considerably more group utility, are tankier and have a higher throughput. That's not "team balance", that's "no balance".

Honestly, looking at people's arguments on this board is like watching your team's brute justice waltzing into the enemy base to try and damage their core while both their turrets are still standing. Hilarious, sad and aggravating all at the same time.
Why on earth do people think they can make statements on balance and call things over-, underpowered or balanced if they aren't even making a comparison in the first place? It's utterly unreasonable, literally unable to be reasoned. It is impossible to reasonably claim something balanced, over- or underpowered without directly comparing the weight first. And yet people do, often. And when they don't, they work on the premise that a healer should be more valuable than a DPS by default.

I can't even retort to such arguments with reason, because they are hanging in a different world altogether. By every objective metric - Raw Throughput, Winrates, Simulations - healers are overpowered and every logical, empirical or numerical comparison with the other roles yields the same results. People constantly make up situations in which healers can be beat, but put any other role in the same situations and not only will the end result be the same, you'll get there much quicker, much easier and with much less resources spent both in theory and in practice.

And yet, some people defy all that like a zealous priest that defies science in favor of the holy book. There's no basis for discussion for me. Hence, I've stopped replying to the people who try to tear my posts apart on that topic - I've simply accepted that they are living in an entirely different world, one where 10kg weighs as heavy as 5kg and that's all there is to it.

[Rufalus]

This whole post feels like an outcry a DPS can't solo a healer. It honestly shouldn't be able to. This is a team game and not a 1v1 match.

I... didn't say that. I was kinda in favor of team play but shifting some of the responsibility, putting less of the survival burden on healers and a bit more on tanks, making them work together. Healers are so much more important than other roles in pvp. While that won't change, maybe it would be better if the disparity wasn't so extreme? Yeah I do think it would be interesting if a healer was at a higher risk than they are now unless a tank is backing them up, with tanks having more uptime available on support abilities and healers being a little more squishy if party coordination isn't there.

[Risvertasashi]

I... didn't say that. I was kinda in favor of team play but shifting some of the responsibility, putting less of the survival burden on healers and a bit more on tanks, making them work together

I've been asking for this for, literally, years now. Unfortunately SE doesn't want tanks to have strong peel, and keeps abilities like cover heavily restricted.

Closest they've come is the medal system for the feast... a tank carrying lots of medals, there's incentive to go after them, at least. But for Frontlines, Rival Wings, and everything else... SE just kinda shrugs and, yes, as you put it, puts the burden on healers.

[Jxnibbles]

Feast and FL/RW are completely different maybe they should be balanced as such but if you nerf Healers you can expect to see more Bards, Mchs and Tanks all of which are extremely strong. Casters and Melees are really weak in this mode the problem just shifts.

As of right now the only reason to Heal is to win, if they get nerfed hard enough why Heal when you could Bard or Mch or Drk. Healers barely mech up because they have to manage waves and heal alliance members. You don't want RW to become Shatter with maybe 1 Healer per 24 players like in 4.0. Then we get Zerging with Bards and Mchs only.

Edit: Mid should be looked at for changes not Healers since whatever balancing will happen in RW will also apply to Feast.. Maybe Healers can't generate mp unless far enough away from mid. Maybe the longer mid is held the team that does not hold it gets a big buff while trying to take it.