Is it time for relics to be the same ilevel as savage weapons?

[Xerek]

Of course I'm sure we all remember the train wreck before SB, where anima weapons were BIS for just a couple of days before the lottery Diadem 2.0 weapons hit. That was a raging...*ahem*...storm.

This is an interesting thread that seems to have quickly degenerated into a raider vs. casual debate. The question being, should putting more time and effort into casual content produce a weapon on-par with less effort put into hardcore content? That's what it comes down to, really. Yes, the relic/anima is shiny for glam purposes, but Yoshi-P stated the relic was always meant as an alternative to get a high-end weapon. Taking that into account, then yes, the two should be on par. How do you get to that big weapon? A bit of time and effort overcoming hardcore content. It's the quickest way. But if you are unable/unwilling to do that, then the relic/anima is an alternative. Easier content, but be prepared to grind your life away. And let's be honest, anyone who ground out umbrites pre-nerf ground their life away (120-160 ARF runs *shudders*).

So, that's the argument. Skill vs. Time. Yoshi-P wanted both to be viable ways to get an endgame weapon. Tell me, what would be wrong with having a relic/anima weapon being on par with a relic weapon? Serious raiders would still gun for the raid weapon as it would be a lot quicker/easier to get. They wouldn't stop raiding just because relic/anima was available. You might lose some casual raiders, but outside of pugging is that really a problem? And odds are, those curious about raiding would still try raiding with their relic/anima weapon. What would be the harm in the relic/anima being the same level as a raid weapon?

[HyoMinPark]

Tell me, what would be wrong with having a relic/anima weapon being on par with a Savage* weapon? Serious raiders would still gun for the raid weapon as it would be a lot quicker/easier to get. They wouldn't stop raiding just because relic/anima was available. You might lose some casual raiders, but outside of pugging is that really a problem? And odds are, those curious about raiding would still try raiding with their relic/anima weapon. What would be the harm in the relic/anima being the same level as a raid weapon?

Because it would immediately invalidate Savage weapons the moment a tier drops. Think about if we’d had relics already for Stormblood—if they had been released at the same time as the Savage tier, there would be zero use for the i345 Genji weapons when raiders would already have an i345 relic outside of maybe glamour.

I can certainly compromise with perhaps allowing the relics to “catch up” to the Savage weapons in catch-up patches—so like in 4.1, they would hit i345 where as before, maybe they capped out at i340. That would be fine, and that’s what they all do in the end anyways. But keeping them consistently on-par with Savage weapons just invalidates the Savage weapons; why put them in the game at that point?

The raiders can and will grind out the relics for their mains and use them for a tier. It would actually be faster for statics to grind out relics rather than it would be for them to all receive Savage drops, because unless RNG is feeling really, really nice, you’re looking at 8 weeks before everyone in a static has their weapon. Why wait 8 when you can wait 1 and everyone have a relic instead?

Why shouldn't it though? Time and effort is time and effort. Someone who only gets an hour here and there to play that would like to raid, but just can't due to real life can't get the best gear. Why? Because raider's would be butt hurt? I understand that clearing the hardest content deserves an reward. Give them a nice shiny title or exclusive glamour gear, but don't limit the ilvl of a weapon just because they have the time to dedicate to the game. Anyone that can dedicate 7-8 hours a day to the game to learn content would be able to clear it eventually. Thousands of others would love to dedicate that much time, but have responsibility outside of the game or don't get to work from home.

I’m not trying to sound rude, but players that aren’t doing the hardest content offered in this game do not need the best gear. If players want the best gear, then they should try for Savage. If they don’t want to—or if they can’t due to real life—well, not to sound callous or anything, but that doesn’t mean they should just get the best gear handed to them because “I want it”. I’m sorry if someone that wants to raid doesn’t have the allotted time to raid because real-life gets in the way, really I am. But that doesn’t mean that the game should just hand them the best gear because, again, “I want it”.

The reward Savage players get is Savage gear with better secondaries (sometimes), and a Savage weapon with 5 extra ilvls. But this thread is about taking that ilvl difference away from them, invalidating basically any weapons that aren’t relics, and then you’re asking that raiders be happy with “a title or exclusive glamour”—which people would probably complain about also wanting next anyways.