Red Mage could use some help.

[Kacho_Nacho]

Out of curiosity, how much more dps equals utility on the scale of game balance? Should red mages do more damage than a bard? Or should the two jobs be equivalent in damage output?

There is no doubt that the ability to quickly raise a dead character is powerful. While, I understand this is an ability which is used less as the red mage progresses into harder content, it is highly useful in the content most players play. That utility cannot just be dismissed with a wave of a hand and clever words. Yet, bards do a great variety of benefits to the table, overall.

[Cynfael]

...it is highly useful in the content most players play. That utility cannot just be dismissed with a wave of a hand and clever words.

On this point I respectfully disagree.

It is only with harder content that RDM rez utility is truly valued, and progressively less so as players become more proficient and better equipped.

In content most players arguably spend the most time playing, the ability to instacast rez on demand is so niche as to be easily dismissed. If we’re talking the occasional resurrection of a lag death or mechanics failure, even that of the healer, that’s nothing a SMN can’t take care of while still performing the primary DPS function at a much higher level.

[Kacho_Nacho]

On this point I respectfully disagree. It is only with harder content that RDM rez utility is truly valued, and progressively less so as players become more proficient and better equipped.

In content most players arguably spend the most time playing, the ability to instacast rez on demand is so niche as to be easily dismissed. If we’re talking the occasional resurrection of a lag death or mechanics failure, even that of the healer, that’s nothing a SMN can’t take care of while still performing the primary DPS function at a much higher level.

We're just going to agree to disagree.

The ability to instacast a rez on demand is useful on Odin and all the later Trials. You must complete many of these hard trials to continue the story. The ability to spare your healers MPs by insta-raising dead characters isn't a niche which can be easily dismissed. It is utility.

With that said, red mages should not be balanced solely around this ability. Each job should be evaluated by what it brings to the table and their damage per second, their offensive buffs, their defensive buffs, and their ability to heal and raise. Right now, I'd say red mages should be smack dab in the middle of the rankings of the damage dealers with the selfish damage dealers being further ahead in their damage to make up for their lack utility.

Now some players have posted that other jobs deserve more attention than Red Mages. To which, I reply, "So?"

This isn't a competition, folks. Every job in the game could probably use a little love from S.E.

What none of us are privy to is how much a utility weighs versus another utility. Nor, do we know how much damage per second weighs against a utility. So, post your posts explaining your dissatisfaction which certain points of your favorite job and don't begrudge those who favor a different job than you. Their concerns are as legitimate as yours.

[Dualgunner]

We're just going to agree to disagree.

The ability to instacast a rez on demand is useful on Odin and all the later Trials. You must complete many of these hard trials to continue the story. The ability to spare your healers MPs by insta-raising dead characters isn't a niche which can be easily dismissed. It is utility.

Just gotta point out: verraise isn't a skill RDM even has until Lv64. I think that's after Susano in level progression; the only two story trials verraise would be helpful for would be Lakshmi and Shinryu.

[Kacho_Nacho]

Just gotta point out: verraise isn't a skill RDM even has until Lv64. I think that's after Susano in level progression; the only two story trials verraise would be helpful for would be Lakshmi and Shinryu.

Oops!

Totally thought red mage got verraise earlier. Sorry everyone.

*abashed*

Off topic: Isn't my hat great, Dualgunner?

[Cynfael]

We're just going to agree to disagree.

The ability to instacast a rez on demand is useful on Odin and all the later Trials. You must complete many of these hard trials to continue the story. The ability to spare your healers MPs by insta-raising dead characters isn't a niche which can be easily dismissed. It is utility.

I see where you're coming from. I suppose I don't look at it the same way because content like Odin is a "one-and-done" deal from my perspective, especially at this point where current content is lvl 70 and Odin was lvl 50 (and, as Dualgunner points out, a level-sync party wouldn't even have Verraise). Odin is also unnecessary for story progression, though it's good to experience for its own sake and possibly for glamour. However, it's still kind of sad if we have to point to old trials to highlight the usefulness of RDM utility outside of Savage progression, and saving healers MP from rezzing isn't the main benefit, anyway. Ideally the healers should be handling rezzes since they lose less DPS for doing so; RDM's power is in being able to rez quickly and without Swiftcast in the event that the healers are occupied or incapacitated.

When I think of daily content, I think more of activities like Expert Roulette that many players participate in to get their weekly tomes, and I still don't see much value to bringing RDM over any other DPS Job as far as gameplay advantage goes (unless you are actually anticipating having a horrible healer or generally terrible party).

In any case, I think we agree on the central point that RDM could use a bit of love, and I also agree that one Job's possible need for adjustment doesn't necessarily take priority over any other Job's similar need. The back-and-forth about which DPS Job was first in line is kind of silly considering that SE is perfectly capable and occasionally willing to lay down adjustments for more than one Job per patch.