It's past time, Yoshi-P...

[akaneakki]

That quote is absolute bullshit for 90% of all roullete pugs, the tank takes way too much damage especially on big pulls for any of that crap to be true. If he had to heal THAT little he's either way overgeared or the tank was way above average.

Cool story.

up to 90% dps uptime on a healer is in my eyes not acceptable. this should not be possible..

But it is. That's how the game is designed. You can do savage and both healers squeeze over 2.5k dps on v1s easy, while BOTH tanks are without tank stance. OgCds are pretty powerful. If The tank drops below 50% hp, tetra popped. Before pulls and you know the boss is doing, let's say 2-3 tail slaps on the MT, you use excog from SCH, which heals for over 600 potency when tank goes below 50%. People who say they are ''true'' healers, doesn't even use their toolkit good as they think they are. The irony is big they think they are great healers, yet they can't even use the tools proppely.

[Teinixi]

But it is. That's how the game is designed.

The way I understood it, that's what he doesn't like, and I kind of agree. Being a good healer just makes you a boring one-button DPS that sometimes has to lose GCDs to heal. You can only cast stone so many times before you start hating life.

[akaneakki]

The way I understood it, that's what he doesn't like, and I kind of agree. Being a good healer just makes you a boring one-button DPS that sometimes has to lose GCDs to heal. You can only cast stone so many times before you start hating life.

It's not always the same case. If you only heal you either afk every 3-5 seconds even 6-8. If you do both you have time to cast a lot of more stones. However, it's not always like that. You also have to learn how to controll your OgCds plus it's not always time to cast stone when there is some little bit healing etc. If you are really good at it, it gives you really high reward of terms of healing and dps.
SCH you need to controll your pet, use xcog when it's good to use, you have to use the pet teather as well if you want to squeeze in some more dps when tank gets hit a bit harder etc. I'm not really a big fan of AST so I cant tell, however, I can understand from your view and his that you both don't like it (that if you both come from MMO where healers can only heal). I've played MMO where healers have to heal and MMO where there are no healers but yourself to blame if you go low on HP. Blade and Soul is one of them for example. But it's alot more interactive doing both dps instead of just healing. You don't exactly heal all the time either just as you dont always dps.

If you like to have a better skill ceiling and do more, play SCH. It's realy high reward if you play it well too.

[Teinixi]

Things and stuff.

Oh I'm not against healer DPS, I just think that the healer DPS rotations are boring as shit, at least for WHM and AST, which means that most of the fight you're basically pressing one button. Haven't played much of SCH but from my limited experience, the balance of DPS/healing skills in their kit feels much better than the other two.

[Kazgrel]

That quote is absolute bullshit for 90% of all roullete pugs, the tank takes way too much damage especially on big pulls for any of that crap to be true. If he had to heal THAT little he's either way overgeared or the tank was way above average.

TL;DR version: “#fakenews”

Only because it serves to blow your agenda out of the water.

[Tridus]

That quote is absolute bullshit for 90% of all roullete pugs, the tank takes way too much damage especially on big pulls for any of that crap to be true. If he had to heal THAT little he's either way overgeared or the tank was way above average.

No, that's not at all unheard of for that dungeon. I do roulette dungeons all the time and don't have a static. Results vary between groups and dungeons, but that number is entirely reproducable in that dungeon.

It's not even the most absurd example. Looking at you, O2N. There's a fight where Regen and Eos (if it's a WHM/SCH team) are more than sufficient to heal the tank the entire run. The ONLY time I need to cast any other heal is when the party takes damage, all of which is telegraphed, and most of which is avoidable. With a group that avoids stuff (which in DF is common these days), I can go for absurdly long periods of time where the only healing I'm doing is "put Regen back up". That's one GCD every 21 seconds, which is even less than 17% uptime. Sure, at some point I'll need to fire off an Assize and probably get an Indom from the other healer, but that's it, and those don't burn a GCD.

The rest of the time, what am I doing? I'm either using the buttons available to me to help the group (Stone and Aero), or I'm doing /playdead.

Sure, other dungeons require more healing. When I get a "pull to the wall" tank in Ala Mhigo, I'm doing a lot more healing than that. But it's never close to the only thing I'm doing, and if they did cautious pulls I'd barely be healing at all. That's the core issue here: tanks have to do big pulls before they're threatened at that level of content, even when they don't massively outgear it. The question isn't "should healers be DPSing?", because the answer to that is yes, unless they feel like standing around eating popcorn.

The question is really "should the game be designed such that healers have so much healing downtime?"

[akaneakki]

I just ran a 50-60 roulette where: Tank AND healer did more than the MNK. Mnk didn't do his job as dps then. No aoe, didn't keep up demolish on boss fights. Explain to me how the tank never died when the healer did nearly twice as much as the MNK. While the healer did her/his duty as healer while doing a good chunck of damage. Nobody died either, so I need some one of the pro people here to explain to me how this is possible.

[Riardon]

There is no problem when Tanks and Healers can contribute to the DPS when they can. It makes it more fun and less boring. Tanking is already boring as it is. Run in front press 2 buttons and stand still until mobs die. Healing on non demanding situations is also boring. The problem is when people are obsessed with DPS meta and start harassing others. I've seen some people do it on normal dungeons.

[Maero]

I rarely have ever seen complaints against anyone while running dungeons, so dunno :/

[Nora_of_Mira]

If OP hasn't abandoned this thread:

It will never happen unless they increase the bottom level difficulty of casual content (roulettes). You can literally be half asleep in these things and still clear. If you separate players into 2 groups, 1) I dont have to try hard, i want it to be easy, 2) I want to try hard all the time, and combine them in the same content: you're gonna have this discussion forever.

to try-hards like me, its inexcusable that you don't try and DPS as much as you can.
to casuals, its inexcusable to ask for more than what is minimally required to clear content.