In Regard to Housing in Patch 4.1

[Alleo]

Well if they made it so it switched hands with only the 'board' listing price, with the selling player getting the gil rather than the server eating it, then it would make it VERY clear who is selling for profit.

That would be an idea I could get behind as long as they punish those that will try to get more out of it. (Like wanting more Gil sent per mail) At least this gives both sides a benefit. People can get rid of their house and get their Gil back and people can buy it without having to fear of losing the house and having to pay more than the original price.

What would really happen:

• There are never any houses up for sale on MB
• Player 1 and Player 2 arrange a sell price
• Player 1 puts up the house for sale when Player 2 can immediately buy it
• Player 2 gets the house, and gives Player 1 millions of extra gil

If there will be no more houses for sale then either the people still need their houses or they are truly house flippers that do that only for profit and I dont really feel bad for them. Any other player that just want the house gone will gladly sell it for the original price because other then the items in the house they would not lose a single gil. This way it might make it non-profitable for the flippers thus they might even stop in the future. Win Win for everyone else.

About the extra gil: Well they simply could make it an instant ban in the ToS (like truly making it part of it) thus everyone that does it that way will be punished. The selling of a house through players should then be done with a certain system which should be watchable by the GMs. So they would know who sold it and who bought it and might just watch for further transactions. Or they simply could say that any contract that they players did (like "I will sell it to you but you have to send me x million Gil per mail or trade") will not be real thus a buyer can simply just pay the original price and not more and if the seller attacks them for that they can simply report them and the only one that is punished is the seller. I am quite sure that if they make sure to be very strict about it, that people would not buy overprice.

Or they could make it anonymous so that the seller does not know who buys it. Thus they cant just force more money out of this.

[Scardon]

What would really happen:

• There are never any houses up for sale on MB
• Player 1 and Player 2 arrange a sell price
• Player 1 puts up the house for sale when Player 2 can immediately buy it
• Player 2 gets the house, and gives Player 1 millions of extra gil

Yes, which I addressed, any significant amounts of gil trading hands around the time of a house sale/purchase could be investigated for violating TOS.

[Arazehl]

Yes, which I addressed, any significant amounts of gil trading hands around the time of a house sale/purchase could be investigated for violating TOS.

If they investigated everyone that sells the rights to buy at a 200% or more profit to the seller, which is a lot across all servers, it would take an astronomical amount of time and resources still. They need to introduce into the UI itself a away for housing plots to carry over from seller to buyer, where the transaction is fair to both and cannot be manipulated by either party. That would relieve this insatiable need for sellers to charge 10x the amount of what the plot was originally worth.

[Scardon]

They need to introduce into the UI itself a away for housing plots to carry over from seller to buyer, where the transaction is fair to both and cannot be manipulated by either party.

Well if they made it so it switched hands with only the 'board' listing price, with the selling player getting the gil rather than the server eating it, then it would make it VERY clear who is selling for profit.

Player 1 lists their plot for sale
Plot is listed for predetermined board price
Player 2 buys the plot from the board and takes ownership
Player 1 gets the gil

A large portion of the transactions 'funny business' could be automatically flagged. They would just need to have the system 'flag' events that occurred close in time. House transaction between players and a large sum of gil being traded. Then THOSE would have to be reviewed and could be knocked out at something like 30 seconds per 'event' by CS.

Ie
Player 2 gives Player 1 10m gil
Player 1 lists house for sale within 30 minutes
Player 2 buys the house with 30 minutes

This would be flagged 'suspect' by automation and sent to review by CS just like any player submitted trouble ticket.

Although I agree simply having a built in, proper system for selling houses between players would lower the blackmarket sales significantly.

[StouterTaru]

If there will be no more houses for sale then either the people still need their houses or they are truly house flippers that do that only for profit

Yes, that's the situation, because there are more people that want houses than there are houses. Anti-flipping measures won't solve that core issue; all it does is restrict house ownership to those that are able to log in at 3am on a Tuesday patch day.

[Alleo]

Yes, that's the situation, because there are more people that want houses than there are houses. Anti-flipping measures won't solve that core issue; all it does is restrict house ownership to those that are able to log in at 3am on a Tuesday patch day.

I agree it will still not be enough for everyone. But it would punish at least those that buy them only to flip them. So it would only be negative for those that use a limited resource to earn Gil from those that truly want it. If they cant flip houses for profit anymore all the houses would at least be in the hands of those that care about it. So if SE cant provide us with housing for everyone then this solution would at least stop those people that misuse the system for their own gain. So at least still a better system that we have right now.

[StouterTaru]

So it would only be negative for those that use a limited resource to earn Gil from those that truly want it. If they cant flip houses for profit anymore all the houses would at least be in the hands of those that care about it.

The people that buy houses from flippers truly want it. So if the flipper is buying just to sell then the house is in the hands of someone that cares about it. It would be negative for someone that wants a house, but can't play the login lottery at 3am on a Tuesday. Who is the real victim of house flipping? The people that weren't able to buy a house and are looking for an easy scapegoat?

[Keridwyn]

The people that buy houses from flippers truly want it. So if the flipper is buying just to sell then the house is in the hands of someone that cares about it. It would be negative for someone that wants a house, but can't play the login lottery at 3am on a Tuesday. Who is the real victim of house flipping? The people that weren't able to buy a house and are looking for an easy scapegoat?

When it stops being against the ToS then we'll stop looking for ways to end house flipping.

Honestly the easy scapegoat to be mad at is the actual person to be mad at, SE themselves. They're the ones who severely underestimated the appeal of housing and the demand that would result. They're the ones that built the system incapable of being expanded enough to fulfill that demand. They keep tossing bandages on the problem by adding more wards, a demo timer, and now these mysterious 'changes'.

[Arazehl]

When it stops being against the ToS then we'll stop looking for ways to end house flipping.

Honestly the easy scapegoat to be mad at is the actual person to be mad at, SE themselves. They're the ones who severely underestimated the appeal of housing and the demand that would result. They're the ones that built the system incapable of being expanded enough to fulfill that demand. They keep tossing bandages on the problem by adding more wards, a demo timer, and now these mysterious 'changes'.

Yes, SE saw this all unfolding and keeps putting what they think is a virtual bandage on the problem. I don't think a lottery system is fair either and would place people back into the same boat they were in before. SE in a recent interview says for the upcoming 4.2 patch it's going to be "fair and square" system. We'll see how really fair and square it will be or if it's just another pacifier to shove in the players mouths to shut us up for a time.

[Alleo]

The people that buy houses from flippers truly want it. So if the flipper is buying just to sell then the house is in the hands of someone that cares about it. It would be negative for someone that wants a house, but can't play the login lottery at 3am on a Tuesday. Who is the real victim of house flipping? The people that weren't able to buy a house and are looking for an easy scapegoat?

It will always be negative for someone as long as we only have a limited amount of houses.

You really make it sound like flippers are doing something good for the community while the truth is that they purposefully snatch away the houses from those that managed to come online and truly want it only to sell it for a higher price on the market board out of greed. There is nothing good out of flipping houses. You will just take away the chances for those that where online or are not the richest while it might even increase RMT thanks to the high amount of Gil needed. (Heck there was even someone selling a house for real money...really the greed by some is shocking)

Next to the price its not even a certain transfer since someone can just snatch it behind your back and thus the buyer could lose everything.

And Yoshida himself stated that they dont want people to sell it for profit. So yes selling something for all those huge amounts of Gil is against the rules thus flippers are no scapegoats but one part of the problem. If you take them out you will not solve the problem of the limitation itself but its a start.