Red Mage could use some help.

[PrismaticDaybreak]

RDM should absolutely be the weakest caster and the best support.

Why exactly should they be the weakest caster? Verraise? With it's inherent timer on usefulness? Vercure? Embolden? Or because it's easier to play, which they said isn't something they balance off of? The biggest issue with RDM is that it's a DPS loss to use 2/3rds of your utility, and only 1/3rd of it continues to be useful after progression. And after progression you don't bring enough damage (or raid damage) to be worth it. Not that all content isn't clearable, but if nobody is dying there's no reason not to bring SMN for more damage and a faster kill. At this point Verraise can hit the bricks, it's annoying when it's used as an argument token since it's essentially worthless unless you have 4+ deaths within one minute.

[zuzu-bq]

Red mage does not like to use vercure as utility(vercure is actually technically a minor dps gain in most fights). Trading at least 240 potency for a weak cure is bad, since the healers can use their GCD to heal much more effeciently at a much lesser trade-off of dps. Which means one thing: If you're put into a situation where you need to vercure in order to clear, the party is massively failing the content. Utility that depends on your party not doing their job should not be weighed in the balance of the class. By the same token, verraise has the same issue. it costs 300 potency for something the healer would lose less damage to do, and is something that only becomes useful when the party is failing...

All of this. Another reason why Clemency was not used even though it was a strong heal, unless it was in a fight's downtime. People really have a hard time understanding this concept.

[Llugen]

...

Welcome to BLM, friend.

And it's simple: RDM is the "jack of all trades" job in every FF game ever. One could argue that Verflare/Verholy are ALREADY stronger than anything the job should ever have had.

Yep. I don't even think anything else needs to be said about it. You said yourself it is capable of doing the content, it just isn't insanely strong like SMN, but coupled with its simplicity and utility (yes Embolden could use a buff to include magic damage just like I said before), there is nothing wrong with it being the weakest caster job.

Also, losing damage by using Vercure isn't really bad design, it's a perfect niche. What other DPS jobs can do that? None. The ability to save the raid by using 2-3 heal GCDs and netting a marginal potency loss is significantly impressive for a DPS job to have, regardless of rez dispensing ability.

[Bernkastelx]

Rdm does not need a dmg buff its fine where it is. Arguing verraise is useless after progression is moot. Unless you are the top 2% of the elite raiders you are still going to be seeing people making mistakes and dying in "Farm" Parties. Where both healers die its usually a wipe but not yet if u have a rdm in the group.

[Dualgunner]

Welcome to BLM, friend.

And it's simple: RDM is the "jack of all trades" job in every FF game ever. One could argue that Verflare/Verholy are ALREADY stronger than anything the job should ever have had.

Yep. I don't even think anything else needs to be said about it. You said yourself it is capable of doing the content, it just isn't insanely strong like SMN, but coupled with its simplicity and utility (yes Embolden could use a buff to include magic damage just like I said before), there is nothing wrong with it being the weakest caster job.

“A jack of all trades is a master of none, but oftentimes better than a master of one.”
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/jack_...master_of_none

Let's look at the trades of which RDM is a jack in:
Swordplay, white magic, and black magic.

They're weaker swordsmen than say, Samurai. They're weaker black mages than black mage, and they're weaker white mages than white mage. Their strength, wherein "jack of all trades" comes in, is their ability to combine these various traits in which they are weak, to create an art which compensates the weaknesses of each art separately.

That's my argument against "RDM is a joat and should be weak because of it."

[Llugen]

“A jack of all trades is a master of none, but oftentimes better than a master of one.”

*Squints* Soooo you agree with me...? Good.

[Dualgunner]

*Squints* Soooo you agree with me...? Good.

Not really. I edited a bit to elaborate.

Also, losing damage by using Vercure isn't really bad design, it's a perfect niche. What other DPS jobs can do that? None. The ability to save the raid by using 2-3 heal GCDs and netting a marginal potency loss is significantly impressive for a DPS job to have, regardless of rez dispensing ability.

The problem comes when RDM's damage is already tuned around simply having them as skills.

[Llugen]

So if RDM becomes the strongest caster and has good utility, tell me, why bring anything else? The very fact that the job is Red Mage means that it will have healing and raising as well as offensive magic. It is the hallmark of RDM since the very first game in the series. I'm really quite surprised that you or anyone would seriously believe that it should be stronger in damage than explosions and summoning bahamut.

It sounds to me like if you don't want to play that job then don't play it. Simple.

[Dualgunner]

I don't want it to be the strongest caster. I'm just showing you how dumb "It has to be weakest because it's a jack of all trades" is, when the opposite could also be argued.

Also, see Summoner.

[Llugen]

Fair enough, forget that I brought up "jack of all trades".

It's the balanced offensive and defensive magic job, and always has been. See also: not the strongest at offensive, not the strongest at defensive.

How about now.