It's past time, Yoshi-P...

[Enla]

Either you don't time your heals properly or you're just plain lying. I have dabbled all levels of content on WHM with the exception of Ultimate and none made it so I didn't have huge windows to DPS. And if the tank does smaller pulls, you'll have to heal so infrequently, that RDM will cast Vercure maybe once. That's much more useful than a WHM who stands around doing absolutely nothing. Basically, unless the tank's doing mega pulls, you will have ample time to DPS. Even then, you can create openings with a Swiftcast + Holy -> Aero III combo.

That's been my experience as well on my alt. Swiftcast + Holy is something that all WHM should be using during pulls as it gives you that window to both top up the tank and to throw in some DPS, even if it's just an Aero II. Especially if you pair it with Piece of Mind, you can sneak in a lot of DPS that way.

[MoroMurasaki]

You need to manage your timing better then because what you've said here just doesn't apply to anything. I have dabbled in all levels of content on WHM with the exception of Ultimate and none made it so I didn't have huge windows to DPS. And this was back when Cleric stance was still a thing.

If the tank does smaller pulls, you'll have to heal so infrequently, that RDM will cast Vercure maybe once. That's much more useful than a WHM who stands around doing absolutely nothing. Basically, unless the tank's doing mega pulls, you will have ample time to DPS. Even then, you can create openings with a Swiftcast + Holy -> Aero III combo.

Gdi Cass, get HyoMin, we found another healer DPS debate that didn't start as one >.<

I will, of course, alert Tridus. I assume Sebazy's healerdpssense is tingling.

[Enla]

Honestly if they shifted towards a 'healers only heal' meta I don't know if I would still be here. Tree gin of healing (for me) is the adaptation. If you take away half my kit and I'm just a Cure II bot.... Why? I guess I've liked tanking so far, maybe I would switch mains.

But yes, they'd be prying Holy away from me as well. It's one of my favorite abilities in the game. There is little more satisfying than a PLD popping Hallowed at the end of a megapull and getting to throw up Cleric, PoM, Thin Air and just light everything on fire.

In terms of SCH it is certainly the healer I've played the least of this expansion so far. I loved it in HW and for me the Bane nerf just hit me right in the feelings. I appreciate the efforts of the devs with Miasma II but it just doesn't feel as powerful as spreading all those dots at full potency to 10+ enemies to me. It's also less spam-worthy compared to WHM/AST. I think SCH would have a hard time adapting to a pure healer world, they'd likely have to nerf fairies into the ground which would be a real hit to their identity.

I'd probably end up leaving the game as well. Healing is perhaps the only aspect of this game that's truly 'clicked' with me on a play level and I positively /love/ the challenge keeping people healed while DPSing as much as I can provides. It's so much fun.

And yeah, SCH would honestly have to be scrapped if this sort of meta became the norm. The developers already don't know what to do with us and all their attempts to push us towards 'healing' have ended in disaster or a loss of class identity. If I can macro my faerie in such a way that makes the 70 skill all but useless, the skill that's PURELY there for 'oh shit' healing and nothing else, there's a problem.

I think I made it pretty clear that I understand that the flaw is caused by the design of the game. You do not need to "explain" that to me. I was pointing out that it isn't unreasonable for people familiar with other MMOs to come to this one thinking that healers... heal. Because that is what they do in other MMOs. You said it was "completely absurd" for players to have some expectation like this, and I pointed out why it is not.

Except that's not what they've done in any of the other MMO's I've played? I started in GW2 where every class had their own heal and was expected to share the load on top of DPSing. Then I went to LoTRO where even the 'pure' healers were expected to output damage as well. Finally I went to SWTOR where, you guessed it, damage was essential even as a heal spec'd Smuggler/Operative or Consular/Inquisitor. I've literally never played a game where 'pure' healing was part of the meta.

[Missbone]

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I can enusre you thats whats im realy thinking. If i want to troll it looks more like the last line of my post. Why do play a healer if i dont like how things work here? Thats easy first i wanted to try them out of course and second its not that i dint have mutch choice than using the dungeonfinder when i whant to lvl them. Potd becomes after 60 very inefficient and with just doing dailys (witch i think are far to limited) it would take ages. Of course i dont get mad if a rdm or smn raises someone, but i dont expect them to do that its my job after all.


If healer would be my main than maybe i would allready have quit the game ages ago. But thats not the case, my main is my rdm followed by the tank classes. If im doing well or not you can hardly judge from few textlines i would say. But i dont care, you have your opionion of me like i have mine of many others and thats totaly fine with me. Btw. sry for asking but do you realy want to compare the healing of the first dungeon (where you dont even need realy a tank) to healing in lvl 60-70 (or 50-60) dungeons? Just asking
I didnt where that often as healer in low lvl dungeons so i cant realy tell how mutch % of the time i could do nothing. I didnt counted the seconds where i have to do nothing, its more like feelt than a precise time, it could be more it could be less its not realy important to me.



Seems like i need to add the ironie tags next time or people dont realy understand what i meant. I dont have a problem if someones plays bad as long we finish the dungeon. Sure when something takes unnecesary long or we wipe few times i also think my part But it would never cross my mind to lecture or harass someone because of that.

[Fyce]

Seems like you enjoy to making your opinion absolute.

No, that's what you are doing. "Healers should only heal!". That's just your opinion, and it contradict with how the game is actually designed.

Whatever like i said i never encountered that what you describe, ok maybe it could be sometimes 5-7 seconds who knows i never stoped that time but it whas never long.

Then we are not playing the same game. Or you are only playing with terrible players. Or you simply don't know how to heal properly (which is the most likely since people already shown every time a thread like this shows up).

[...]the time one tank start with babypulls is maybe 1 of 10 ( or 1 o 9 whatever). Usually the tanks i have pull 2 groups at once, sometimes even 3[...]

So? That doesn't prevent good healers from throwing a DoT, using a few Holy while still maintaining their tank alive. And it's not because you can't do it that it's the case for everyone. Besides, your very argument of "3-5 seconds of downtime" is flawed to begin with, as that's all it takes to cast your DoTs and a damage spell. People are just asking you to use these few seconds of downtime instead of waiting for the tank to lose 500 HP before casting a Cure which will give him back 9000.

and if a tank realy starts with babypulls i tell him to pick 2 groups at once.

Double standards. If you don't want people to tell you how to play, then don't tell them either.
You spent you whole time on this thread basically saying to everyone that you'll only do what you want to do, even if the game isn't designed to be played like that. But when a tank wants to do the same thing, you'll tell him what you want him to do? Damn you princess healers. Nothing is too selfish for you, heh?

I would pay to see you play.

I think I made it pretty clear that I understand that the flaw is caused by the design of the game. You do not need to "explain" that to me. I was pointing out that it isn't unreasonable for people familiar with other MMOs to come to this one thinking that healers... heal. Because that is what they do in other MMOs. You said it was "completely absurd" for players to have some expectation like this, and I pointed out why it is not.

It's. Not. A. Flaw.
And again, you implied that FFXIV's healers don't heal. They do. But in FFXIV, they also do other things. What I called completly absurd, is the fact that some people cannot fathom this idea. The idea that a game may ask you to change your habits. That not all games are the same. Heck, are you spitting on MMORPG who deviated from the holy trinity because "they didn't do like the other games"? Again, that's absurd.
You are so dense, even a paid lightsaber from Battlefront II lootboxes wouldn't even scratch you. Because, yes, it seems that I have to explain some things to you, because it's already the third time and you still didn't get it.

[Oscura]

You are so dense, even a paid lightsaber from Battlefront II lootboxes wouldn't even scratch you. Because, yes, it seems that I have to explain some things to you, because it's already the third time and you still didn't get it.

Now this is real savage content.

[Maeka]

snip

I disagree highly. Well, partially.

I do not want another WoW where a tank goes from 100% to 20% to 100% to 20% to 100% to 20% every 3 seconds. That would make me quit this game faster than you could drop a potato. I LIKE the laid-back nature of the game's tanking and healing. I LIKE how you have TIME to do other stuff. I LIKE the variety of gameplay, where I can throw some DPS spells as a healer.

Now, I don't like the parsing fanatics who think you must 110% every single dungeon in the game, and that you're wasting their precious 2-5 minutes per clear if you don't, but yet the cure would be far worse than the disease if we did what the OP is implying we should do.

You would essentially be killing off what I love about FFXIV dungeons.

The problem isn't the game, it's the elitism. The game's mechanics are fine.

[HyoMinPark]

Well thanks for explaining, but i think im doing pretty fine when it comes to healing. As mentioned the oom thing happend only in a very few chases where overall team perfomance whas realy bad, so the mana thing is not my real problem. When im queing as healer its because i want to heal and i refuse to use any dmg skill (except it refills my mana or stuff like that) while im in a healrole. If people cant handle that im only focusing on what a healers job is (its the same in every mmo no matter how the playstyle is) thats not my problem. Just because a healer has also dmg skills for solo content it dosnt mean that he needs to use them while in group.

This is incredibly incorrect. If your DPS skills were not intended to be used in group content, they would be greyed out just like Cleric Stance was in the old PvP. There is literally no reason to stand idle for half of an instance or more. Not even Savage requires 80% healing uptime. I'm sorry, but any time I see a healer standing around doing nothing, unless they are new to the instance, I consider them incredibly lazy. You should Always Be Casting. Especially if you play WHM because WHM MP management is godly now, not to mention they have the strongest DPS of all three healers.

Have ever read sutch nonses about healers in any other mmo?

This is FFXIV; not some other MMO. Not all games play alike.

Maybe SE should simply increase the manacost multiplier for dmg skills in dungeons and raids by 3x or 4x, maybe than people will understand that its not a healers job to do dmg. Damage from healers should be allways only be optional (if the healer feels like it) and never a must have.

I'm all for healing being more engaging, but the developers are never going to require massive amounts of healing in anything except Savage/Ultimate because a lot of the more casual playerbase will complain that it's "too hard." Just look at all the cries the OF had about needing ShinEx because it was "too hard" on healers or had "too many mechanics."

Increasing MP costs of DPS spells seems like a shoddy way to discourage healer DPS. Quite frankly, if the developers ever greyed out my DPS skills as a healer in duties, I would stop playing healers. I find the heal-bot playstyle incredibly annoying. I dislike being forced into the solo-healing role in 8-mans or 24-mans because I enjoy weaving in damage as a healer. Makes the roles a lot less boring. Because, again, nothing in this game requires a healer to be healing 80-90% of an instance.

Healers should share healing and DPSing in 8-mans or 24-mans. They should contribute equally to both, and contributing healer DPS to the over all party or raid DPS is what I consider good teamwork.

The developers have all the means to disable healer DPS in instances. But I think they know that, if they do that, a lot of players will stop playing healers because they don't like a heal-only playstyle.

Btw. if you only spam AOE heal like some people here say you will run out oom very fast and it will be harder to keep the tank alive because they are not so strong as the singel target spells.

Of course you will. And any healer that spams AOE heals as a means to heal one or two people is a bad healer. There is no other or nicer way to say that.

But maybe i should also start explaining DDs and Tanks how they should play there class if they dont perform how i like. Im sure i will make many friends this way.

I mean, I already call people out sometimes when the DPS are refusing to AOE large packs and the tanks won't use CDs. If you see someone not pulling their weight, sometimes it's extremely hard to stay silent, even though most people do.

The "harassment" that people say is so pervasive about healers DPSing is really not as pervasive as people like to claim it is. Most people suck it up and deal with it. But really shouldn't have to.

[Selova]

Seems like you enjoy to making your opinion absolute. Whatever like i said i never encountered that what you describe, ok maybe it could be sometimes 5-7 seconds who knows i never stoped that time but it whas never long. Also i dont play scholar i simply dont like that class, the time one tank start with babypulls is maybe 1 of 10 ( or 1 o 9 whatever). Usually the tanks i have pull 2 groups at once, sometimes even 3 and if a tank realy starts with babypulls i tell him to pick 2 groups at once. I dont know what with what groups u usually play but i didnt have the time so far to just stand around and enjoying the view.

You really just need to stop while you're ahead. You clearly don't understand how the healer in FFXIV functions, If you are really spending close to your entire time healing like you claim you are either healing people that are full hp aka overhealing or you have a extremely high hp healing threshold where you are constantly healing people even if they take a sliver of damage. You use the excuse that you would go oom constantly if you were to start doing damage, the only reason you could possibly be oom is because you have a extremely high healing threshold, therefore completely wasting your mana by using massive heals on your party when it's not needed resulting in incredibly high overheals aka completely wasting your mana. You are literally gimping yourself and your healing by doing this. There is no reason to constantly top people off at high thresholds, an efficient healer understands how scripted and predictable damage works and understands there is no reason to waste your mana on heals when healing is not needed.


It really sounds like your new to healing and need practice, because if you are indeed going oom just healing, I know for a fact that your healing threshold is at least over 70%. You need to do some research on how scripted and predictable damage works in this game, what separates the good healers from the bad healers is the hp threshold and understanding that just because someone takes damage doesn't mean they immediately need healed, they aren't going to take a 90% hp crit to the face randomly, everything is predictable and you know when the damage is going to go out and for how much.


I leveled a scholar from 1-70 before the mp adjustments, a job that was notorious for having mana issues due to high mp costs and i never, not once went oom during any content due to me using mana for my damaging spells, not once. That means there is absolutely zero reason you are unable to pump out damage, you are just unwilling to because you have this stubborn, set in your ways mind-set that you don't need to heal and that you are efficiently fulfilling your role, when you aren't. This mentality and play style isn't going to do you any favors in the long run. I'd be more then happy to recommend to you some excellent healing guides on how to play your role more efficiently and optimally, but that's only if you are willing to learn and understand that the pure healer mind-set isn't going to get you far and that adjustments need to be made if you plan on doing any type of end-game content. Cheers.

[MoroMurasaki]

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It's clear one of two things is happening here; either you're incapable of understanding my posts or you're playing dumb. I personally don't care which but it does mean this feels a bit like talking to a wall. Or a particularly poorly formatted bot.

I will assert that with the information you're providing in this thread I can say with relative surety you are an inefficent and ineffective healer. I don't need to see you heal to say this because you have admitted to the one thing that makes anyone bad at any role - large swathes of downtime.

You're digging the hole deeper by saying you don't offer help to struggling players. It isn't harassing someone to explain part of their rotation, it's called being helpful. If you see someone fall down a flight of stairs do you ignore them unless they ask for help? This "Harrassment! Lecturing! You don't pay my sub, la la la la I can't hear you!" mentality that you have is something that other players make a joke about all the time but you are the living, breathing embodiment of that playstyle.

But you're right, I don't pay your sub and you don't pay mine. Now where did I put my votekick button...

yay!

Hyomin! You came!

I missed your wordiness.