It's past time, Yoshi-P...

[HoodRat]

Well maybe its a bad attiude if i have some principles, i cant help that. Its not my fault if the game gives me to less to do as healer, but honestly most time i dont feel this way. If people realy belive its bad behavior doing nothing sometimes for 3-5 seconds before the next hit comes than they have far greater problems then my playstyle. I would never expect from a tank or dd to help me with healing or a dd to tank thats not their job, so from my point of view its not realy unfair if i only focus on healing.

With that same logic: why are you sometimes doing nothing for 3-5 seconds? The role is called healer, not afker.

[Ghastly]

Basically to put it in baby terms we need Yoshida to make all content like Hashmal from Rabanastre. Yoshida please give us extreme version of dungeons where regular enemies and bosses do twice as much damage or something fun like that and maybe the boss attacks happen faster or something.

[Enla]

Well maybe its a bad attiude if i have some principles, i cant help that. Its not my fault if the game gives me to less to do as healer, but honestly most time i dont feel this way. If people realy belive its bad behavior doing nothing sometimes for 3-5 seconds before the next hit comes than they have far greater problems then my playstyle. I would never expect from a tank or dd to help me with healing or a dd to tank thats not their job, so from my point of view its not realy unfair if i only focus on healing.

It doesn't give you less to do though. There isn't a second during a fight when I'm playing as SCH when I'm not casting something and I often have to prioritize certain spells over others because of the sheer button bloat and use of all my abilities. Your issue is that there's less pure auto-healing in this game, which is fair. However just because it doesn't suit your playstyle doesn't mean that healers have less to do by any means and I say that as someone who doesn't care if my co-healer only focuses on heals so long as they do that job well.

The style of this game is designed around healers providing even just one dot for each encounter and keeping it up, with varying levels of skill between that being acceptable to get through fights. Literally that's all you need to do as a healer to contribute in most fights and I rarely see even that. As a WHM especially keeping your aero dots up between pulls is simple and contributes heavily to the DPS output.

I can also honestly say that if they made this game about pure heals and /only/ heals then I and many others would find it boring, especially since every encounter can still be done by a healer who wants to only 'heal' but just with some flack from their party. If that's a consistent issue for you, then honestly I recommend queuing with people you know instead.

[Fyce]

Sry but i have no idea what you talking about, i never had a single run where i didnt need to do anything. Like i said above, the biggest breake i had from time to time where like 3-5 seconds. Doing nothing looks a bit else to me sry. Btw. if a RDM would spam Vercure all the time he would be oom in under 2 minutes.

A PLD using Hallowed Ground cannot receive damage for 10 seconds.
If a tank does baby pulls while using some cooldowns, a single Regen of 21s duration is enough.
In a lot of low level dungeons, the fairy of a SCH is enough to completly heal any damage received during the whole dungeon.

Your "3-5 seconds of downtime" is a complete lie. People already made several videos of them doing nothing but healing through a dungeon to show how much downtime there is and how few healing spells you actually need to cast.
Your argument is old and has already been debunked more than once.


Edit: I'm realizing... How can you handle a "pure healer" playstyle from other games when you already find FFXIV's healing "challenging" enough? If FFXIV switched to a gameplay where you'd need to be healing 100% of the time, you will get completly overwhelmed. I hope that you are aware that your dream as "princess healers" will actually be your own doom.

[MoroMurasaki]

Well thanks for explaining, but i think im doing pretty fine when it comes to healing. As mentioned the oom thing happend only in a very few chases where overall team perfomance whas realy bad, so the mana thing is not my real problem. When im queing as healer its because i want to heal and i refuse to use any dmg skill (except it refills my mana or stuff like that) while im in a healrole. If people cant handle that im only focusing on what a healers job is (its the same in every mmo no matter how the playstyle is) thats not my problem. Just because a healer has also dmg skills for solo content it dosnt mean that he needs to use them while in group. Have ever read sutch nonses about healers in any other mmo? Maybe SE should simply increase the manacost multiplier for dmg skills in dungeons and raids by 3x or 4x, maybe than people will understand that its not a healers job to do dmg. Damage from healers should be allways only be optional (if the healer feels like it) and never a must have.

Btw. if you only spam AOE heal like some people here say you will run out oom very fast and it will be harder to keep the tank alive because they are not so strong as the singel target spells.

But maybe i should also start explaining DDs and Tanks how they should play there class if they dont perform how i like. Im sure i will make many friends this way.

I can't be sure if you're a troll or not. This post is like riiiiiiight on the edge for me. Then again I'm not sure if I want you to be a troll so there's that.

I will say this - you seem very certain of the playstyle you desire, that being a more or less zero damage healer. Why in the world would you then play a healer in a game where healer DPS is such an ingrained part of the general mindset even among casual players? I would say, at least for FFXIV, you should stick to tanking or DPSing.

If you really have your heart set on playing a pure healer then go and find a game in which that is a thing, there's plenty out there from what I hear.

I'm not going to give you advice about MP management or the mitigation potential of Holy, not even the gigantic mitigation offered by enemies dying faster. You know why? Because you don't seem like the kind of person that cares about doing well even when it is detrimental to your group.

On the final note of your post I have offered a plethora of advice to players from all roles, everything from telling DRGs about the importance of Heavy Thrust to coaxing newer tanks into stance dancing on bosses. You know what the most common response is? Silence. I'd say a bit more than half the time the person I'm speaking to does the thing I said. I've certainly had many engaging conversations spring from it as well, once a tank and I got to talking at the end of a dungeon for an extra half hour about the WAR single target DPS potential and how he could do so much more.

So yes, explaining to people how to do their jobs can certainly make you friends. You just have to not be awful about it.

Edit!

Well maybe its a bad attiude if i have some principles, i cant help that. Its not my fault if the game gives me to less to do as healer, but honestly most time i dont feel this way. If people realy belive its bad behavior doing nothing sometimes for 3-5 seconds before the next hit comes than they have far greater problems then my playstyle. I would never expect from a tank or dd to help me with healing or a dd to tank thats not their job, so from my point of view its not realy unfair if i only focus on healing.



Sry but i have no idea what you talking about, i never had a single run where i didnt need to do anything. Like i said above, the biggest breake i had from time to time where like 3-5 seconds. Doing nothing looks a bit else to me sry. Btw. if a RDM would spam Vercure all the time he would be oom pretty fast.

Oh there was more! My bad.

So now I see you aren't a troll, yay.

Do you get mad when a RDM or SMN raises people? That's helping with your healing after all, can't have that. I've witnessed RDMs heal a tank through the majority of a boss because I messed up and died or pulled it from the tank with that great WHM burst DPS (lol but true) so yes a RDM certainly can heal quite effectively.

It's been proven with a competent tank that Eos can heal all of Sastasha with literally no actions taken by the SCH other than moving. I get that maybe you don't get play SCH but if a glorified regen-bot (sorry Eos, harsh but true) can heal an entire dungeon then any healer can do it with huge amounts of downtime.

I think it was Taika who had a 17% active time run of something as a pure healer? That means 83% of their time spent in that dungeon was inactive.

I don't man to be rude but this is certainly going to seem rude - if you occasionally have 3-5 seconds of downtime in a dungeon someone healed with 83% afking then you are not very good. Whether you're overhealing out of boredom or maybe wearing tank gear or something... I don't know what you're doing wrong but trust me it's something major. Like, huge problems.

Or, y'know, you're lying about that down time.

[Enla]

I'm not going to give you advice about MP management or the mitigation potential of Holy, not even the gigantic mitigation offered by enemies dying faster. You know why? Because you don't seem like the kind of person that cares about doing well even when it is detrimental to your group.

They'd have to pry Holy from my cold-dead fingers if they ever forcibly shifted the meta towards a more 'pure' healing playstyle. I don't even use it for damage in most cases, though I remember the dreaded days of T4, just popping it a few seconds into a pull gives me enough time to top everyone off and throw out my own dots to help make the pull go that much smoother.

That also brings me to another point. Where does SCH sit in this new meta people are proposing? That classes entire schtick is rooted in mitigation and damage output, to the point they had to GIVE US BACK A DOT a patch into Stormblood because their attempt to make our class more 'healing' focused was so woefully at odds with how the class should be played. We also had to get potency buffs across the board as well for our shields and aetherpact is still somemwhat under performing compared to a macro'd faerie. I'd hate to see what would happen to that class if the developers suddenly decided to shift the meta. They barely know what to do with it as is.

[Missbone]

snip

Seems like you enjoy to making your opinion absolute. Whatever like i said i never encountered that what you describe, ok maybe it could be sometimes 5-7 seconds who knows i never stoped that time but it whas never long. Also i dont play scholar i simply dont like that class, the time one tank start with babypulls is maybe 1 of 10 ( or 1 o 9 whatever). Usually the tanks i have pull 2 groups at once, sometimes even 3 and if a tank realy starts with babypulls i tell him to pick 2 groups at once. I dont know what with what groups u usually play but i didnt have the time so far to just stand around and enjoying the view.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Sry but i have no idea what you talking about, i never had a single run where i didnt need to do anything. Like i said above, the biggest breake i had from time to time where like 3-5 seconds. Doing nothing looks a bit else to me sry. Btw. if a RDM would spam Vercure all the time he would be oom pretty fast.

You need to manage your timing better then because what you've said here just doesn't apply to anything. I have dabbled in all levels of content on WHM with the exception of Ultimate and none made it so I didn't have huge windows to DPS. And this was back when Cleric stance was still a thing.

If the tank does smaller pulls, you'll have to heal so infrequently, that RDM will cast Vercure maybe once. That's much more useful than a WHM who stands around doing absolutely nothing. Basically, unless the tank's doing mega pulls, you will have ample time to DPS. Even then, you can create openings with a Swiftcast + Holy -> Aero III combo.

[MoroMurasaki]

They'd have to pry Holy from my cold-dead fingers if they ever forcibly shifted the meta towards a more 'pure' healing playstyle. I don't even use it for damage in most cases, though I remember the dreaded days of T4, just popping it a few seconds into a pull gives me enough time to top everyone off and throw out my own dots to help make the pull go that much smoother.

That also brings me to another point. Where does SCH sit in this new meta people are proposing? That classes entire schtick is rooted in mitigation and damage output, to the point they had to GIVE US BACK A DOT a patch into Stormblood because their attempt to make our class more 'healing' focused was so woefully at odds with how the class should be played. We also had to get potency buffs across the board as well for our shields and aetherpact is still somemwhat under performing compared to a macro'd faerie. I'd hate to see what would happen to that class if the developers suddenly decided to shift the meta.

Honestly if they shifted towards a 'healers only heal' meta I don't know if I would still be here. Tree gin of healing (for me) is the adaptation. If you take away half my kit and I'm just a Cure II bot.... Why? I guess I've liked tanking so far, maybe I would switch mains.

But yes, they'd be prying Holy away from me as well. It's one of my favorite abilities in the game. There is little more satisfying than a PLD popping Hallowed at the end of a megapull and getting to throw up Cleric, PoM, Thin Air and just light everything on fire.

In terms of SCH it is certainly the healer I've played the least of this expansion so far. I loved it in HW and for me the Bane nerf just hit me right in the feelings. I appreciate the efforts of the devs with Miasma II but it just doesn't feel as powerful as spreading all those dots at full potency to 10+ enemies to me. It's also less spam-worthy compared to WHM/AST. I think SCH would have a hard time adapting to a pure healer world, they'd likely have to nerf fairies into the ground which would be a real hit to their identity.

[Naunet]

Nobody is saying that healers shouldn't heal. What people are saying is that given how FFXIV is designed, healers shouldn't heal all the time.
If you want to use strawman arguments, at least try to make them harder to debunk.

And, again, it's not a simple "expectaction", it's how the game is designed. You are not only arguing against the people who like the way things are, but you are arguing against the game itself.

I think I made it pretty clear that I understand that the flaw is caused by the design of the game. You do not need to "explain" that to me. I was pointing out that it isn't unreasonable for people familiar with other MMOs to come to this one thinking that healers... heal. Because that is what they do in other MMOs. You said it was "completely absurd" for players to have some expectation like this, and I pointed out why it is not.