So when does SE plan to credit our accounts for the multiple ongoing service issues?

[Chronons]

snip

Maybe raging is a bit harsh. How about, insulting others knowledge and using your own as a cudgel? Better?

I agree with you that SE isnt obligated to compensate players, but the truth of that isnt really for us to decide. That is an answer that would only come if players did file suit against the company. Until then they aren't legally obligated to do anything. They could always choose to, based on the feedback from their consumers as a measure to hedge against such damages though. Feedback from sources such as this thread. However, I dont think they will nor do I think there is any risk to them if they dont.

In any case, if they were forced to compensate players they would very likely take some legal action against their ISP. To cover any costs they are forced to play players. In which case all of the IT arguments provided here are useful. They just hold no power in the contract relationship between us and SE that I can think of.

[Rymm]

K, first

indigence

You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means.

Moving on. I don't see anyone arguing that the ToS is ironclad. (Though as an aside, I personally think it's funny, the amount of people who obviously didn't read it and clicked 'accept' anyway, then get all rage-y about how it doesn't apply later. But I digress.) People are bringing it up because it's applicable in this case. SE warned us that there might be interruptions in service for various reasons, and that customers do not have a right to compensation should they actually happen.

You claim that there are certain arguments that can punch holes in the ToS clause (Though let's be honest, what lawyer/firm in their right mind would want to even attempt to bring suit against whatever high-powered legal team SE can field over something so petty as this?) but you, yourself, go on to say that the current situation hasn't reached such a point yet that these arguments could apply. So if, by your own admittance, the clause firmly stands, then why on earth are you taking issue with people bringing it up in an attempt to get those people who are actually "raging" to back down?

I would argue that SE owes us nothing because they haven't done anything wrong and because what is happening is outside of their sphere of influence. The ToS doesn't really need to be brought into it, but it was the ragers who want something that opened that particular door when they claimed that SE is legally required to compensate them. Other people then brought up the ToS (the exact legal agreement between the provider and customer) to disprove their erroneous assertions.

[Mavrias]

Square isn't gonna compensate anyone because not everyone was affected. Heck, probably not even half of the NA playerbase was affected. It depended entirely on wbat channels your ISP goes through to access Square's servers.

Do you also demand compensation every time your power goes out?

If you order a pizza for delivery and it takes a while to get to you cause of a snowstorm, are you automatically owed a free pizza?

[Chronons]

snip

You are correct, I miss-typed and should have used the work indignance. Ill leave it as is for others to learn.

I only take issue with the blanket use of the ToS as a means to shut down conversation on the subject, which I have seen in the thread. Someone presenting it does not prove that SE is not legally obligated to compensate, it is merely SE's reason for not. It should instead be used as a tool to discuss whether or not players have a legal right to compensation. For what its worth, I agree that SE owes us nothing and that the ToS isnt needed to see that. The game, while laggy at times, is mostly playable.

[Canadane]

The amount of people that think the issue us related to SE or even directed at FFXIV is pretty mind boggling.

[Baingoleth]

How about if a company fails to take appropriate security measures to protect their service? Whether they are or aren't is speculation, but to say that have 0 ethical responsibility is a stretch.

For the sake of getting some indication as to whether or not out discussion can go anywhere:
Do you believe there is ANY circumstance in which SE should add time to consumer accounts due to the quality of service. For example, if the DDoS attacks made the game unplayable for the full month of your sub, would you feel like SE should compensate you in some way? After all, their service didn't provide any value to you.

Seriously, do you expect SE to move a bunch of racks out of NTTs data-centre and into another one overnight because NTT is getting DDoSed? Get real.

Any time my service was interrupted, I did a traceroute and sure enough, it was an NTT hop experiencing packet delay and loss. Not once did I see latency at SE's endpoint IP address. The servers stayed up and appeared to keep running just fine. It would appear that any network security within SE's power has been good enough so far.

Do I think there could be cases where SE could be in a position to credit back subscription fees to the players? Absolutely. A few things come to mind:

-If an update goes live and they made errors that prevent login
-If a server experiences technical trouble and they ignore it
-Or even if NTT has major network trouble long-term and SE doesn't look at new hosting service

As for point 3, I don't think SE is there yet. As a global ISP with a massive client base, I fully expect NTT to be on top of this. In the cases where I was affected on my route last week, NTT had the offending IP addresses black-holed within a few minutes. If this goes on for another week, even though the interruptions are a few minutes at most, I would hope SE will consider other hosting providers. I haven't noticed any latency for a few days now so I am hopeful that NTT found a way to permanently mitigate the attack, found the source and was able to take action to stop the DDoSer or that the DDoSer gave up.

Personally, I don't think SE has been negligent in any way throughout this entire attack on NTT and therefore, I won't be asking them for compensation.

[Baingoleth]

In any case, if they were forced to compensate players they would very likely take some legal action against their ISP. To cover any costs they are forced to play players. In which case all of the IT arguments provided here are useful. They just hold no power in the contract relationship between us and SE that I can think of.

Yes! This I could see and if this continues much longer, I would be surprised if SE doesn't get after NTT, look at new hosting and do something for the players.

[winsock]

Do I think there could be cases where SE could be in a position to credit back subscription fees to the players? Absolutely. ...snip...
-Or even if NTT has major network trouble long-term and SE doesn't look at new hosting service

Now we are getting somewhere! Thank you!

To continue, may I ask why you would feel like compensation is due for the reason above? It's not SE's fault right?

In the abstract, SE has a responsibility/obligation to ensure they are providing quality service. Why you feel their obligation suddenly changes after a set period of time is beyond me.

[Xerek]

Now we are getting somewhere! Thank you!

To continue, may I ask why you would feel like compensation is due for the reason above? It's not SE's fault right?

In the abstract, SE has a responsibility/obligation to ensure they are providing quality service. Why you feel their obligation suddenly changes after a set period of time is beyond me.

If you task a reliable delivery service to deliver your package and their delivery person has trouble getting it there, it is atypical. It's not your fault, it is the fault of that delivery person. If, however, that same delivery person continues to screw up time and again you'd then decide they were unreliable, look into a different delivery service, and maybe give the person the deliveries are going to a little something, not out of responsibility or obligation, but rather good will.

...same thing happening here. We're simply not at the part where the delivery service is shown to be unreliable yet.

[ManuelBravo]

OH look enough people finally submitted tickets rather than complain for SE to make a forum entry let's stay tuned...O. with today's date. Oh wait these are JP Data centers.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-%28Nov.-14%29


https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...262263983fce07