With the sprint changes, what is the point of Fist of Wind?

[Tigerlilley]

words.

I feel like while the other dps classes also got their dots taken away, they got something else to replace it. Like Ninja ninki, Dragoon got further changes to their rotation Samurai have their gage.

Monks got, well, nothing.

[RiceisNice]

I feel like while the other dps classes also got their dots taken away, they got something else to replace it. Like Ninja ninki, Dragoon got further changes to their rotation Samurai have their gage.

Monks got, well, nothing.

Monks got increased potencies across the board to bake for the "loss" of DoTs. It's more or less the same across the board because realistically, DoTs didn't really add much depth to their gameplay the were they are (specifically abilties like lead shot, phletomoize, fracture and ToD). Mind you that DRG was still considered undertuned until they further buffed their 5th combo hits, samurai didn't "have their dots taken away" since they were a new class, and rotation wise, MCH is largely unchanged even with the removal of lead shot.

Not arguing that MNK is well designed, there's still a few outliers that shows they clearly ran out of ideas for MNK (and a few other job abilties) and instead went the other way.

The most recent action we got that we can actually be really enthusiastic about was gained at level 54 with Elixir Field and it doesn't truly change how Monk functions, it just kinda slides between what was already there. There's a desire for something new with Monk and a large number of long standing complaints that we were hyped up to believe would be addressed with the action rework that just didn't get addressed at all. It feels like they've gotten to the point where them being completely unwilling to touch the core of the class is a problem, not an asset.

Quality of life abilties such as form shift and chakra are buffs to MNK's kit, since now they have the ability to maintain their DPS during downtime compared to having a ranged attack that interrupts combo sequences. However, the nature of GL3 does become a hindrance when they are unwilling to allow a fourth stack; all that really does is increase the dps discprendency of a monk who can maintain GL4 and those who couldn't, as well as their relative dps since now it's balance around being at GL4 the majority of the time.

[SpeckledBurd]

-Wrong information about potencies and stuff I already said about the good Quality of Life in Heavensward-

This is incorrect, Monk did not have increased potencies across the board, Monk had all of its potencies reduced by 10 or more. Every other job saw all of their potencies increased and gained new GCDs to compensate for the loss of a DoT except Monk.

Also Touch of Death added more depth to Monk compared to other jobs since it had a very real interaction with Demolish's timer which was fun to manage, especially at higher skill speed builds where you could use both Touch of Death and Fracture to delay your dot ticksw. What actually did replace it was Deep Meditation which really just feels like nothing, the double layered RNG nature of the skill means you get an extra forbidden Chakra every 50-80 seconds. We didn't even get an extra GCD in our standard combos to replace Touch of Death like Ninja and Dragoon both got.

As for what I said about Quality of Life, I didn't say that the Quality of Life skills we got in Heavensward are bad. They aren't, they're very very good and I legitimately don't understand how you can have Monk at lower levels without something like Form Shift, it's the single most essential of the job. My point was that the Quality of Life we got in Stormblood is bad. Riddle of Earth doesn't allow for flexible maintanence of GL3 like Transpose does for BLM, it's extremely rigid and can only be used in very specific situations because it requires the boss to hit you. Coupled with how short GL3 is it makes the ability incredibly unreliable outside of literally one fight (O4S phase 1), and then it can't be relied on to be up for the same situation again.

[RiceisNice]

This is incorrect, Monk did not have increased potencies across the board, Monk had all of its potencies reduced by 10 or more. Every other job saw all of their potencies increased and gained new GCDs to compensate for the loss of a DoT except Monk.
.

I could have worded it better; Twin snakes got an increase in the damage buff, which also affects auto attacks and oGCDs.

We didn't even get an extra GCD in our standard combos to replace Touch of Death like Ninja and Dragoon both got.

NIN doesn't get any new GCDs as far as I'm aware. DRG did get a 5th GCD in their combo as far as gameplay is concerned, but I was making a point in that alone didn't make up for the apparent dps loss of a DoT, or that it did but it wasn't enough since they were relatively underperforming that it needed a buff to begin with.

[SpeckledBurd]

I could have worded it better; Twin snakes got an increase in the damage buff, which also affects auto attacks and oGCDs.





NIN doesn't get any new GCDs as far as I'm aware. DRG did get a 5th GCD in their combo as far as gameplay is concerned, but I was making a point in that alone didn't make up for the apparent dps loss of a DoT, or that it did but it wasn't enough since they were relatively underperforming that it needed a buff to begin with.

Twin Snakes didn't get a buff, it just had the old Trait: Enhanced Twin Snakes folded into the Base Action. It was a 10% buff in Heavensward and ARR and that has not changed.

Ninja got another Gust Slash added between Spinning Edge and Shadow Fang. It wasn't much, but it's more than what Monk got.

[RiceisNice]

Twin Snakes didn't get a buff, it just had the old Trait: Enhanced Twin Snakes folded into the Base Action. It was a 10% buff in Heavensward and ARR and that has not changed.

Ok then.

Ninja got another Gust Slash added between Spinning Edge and Shadow Fang. It wasn't much, but it's more than what Monk got.

If you're coming from the perspective that monk hasn't gotten in extra ability to use in their rotation, then yes. Though it's not very clear cut since NIN essentially had the DoT from shadow fang baked into Dancing Edge and made into a third combo; all that really did was lower their effective dps gain if there was already a warrior (or if this change wasn't made, a samurai) in the group, in the end they're still doing less AE combos compared to before.

As far as speaking damage is concerned, this is a non-issue since adding an extra GCD/combo does not necessarily mean more dps as we saw with DRG, at least when it's not tuned right. Despite the above that MNK did effectively get lower potencies, it's it doesn't necessarily mean that it's underperforming as opposed to undesired or poorly designed. I was primarily arguing the former to someone else (thus if this is not the point you're making, everything we talked about in regards to potency above isn't relevant), since I do agree that as far as design is concerned, MNK definitely could have been done better because they effectively ran out of ideas if they have to add things like tackle mastery and improved chakra.