Built-in Parsers

[BigRed5392]

snip

i never said i did that yet. I said i do run the content. I just don't farm then to death so no mounts. Nor did i get lucky with ARR mounts.

i have arr extremes beat. I have Bismark and raven extremes beat. I did coil, did knight of the roundex, been a while but don't think i did nidhogg. wasn't into coil savage, and skipped alex savage. Working on omega, may not do savafe due to work.

i do other stuff in game as well as crating, gathering, playing with my g/f.

the name/shame is false statements i don;t do content based on my mounts. And putting words in my mouth that im anti parser. Which i never stated I was.

People just allergic to the fact that teamwork, is a team responsibility. And that if a run goes south its the teams fault.

Pointing fingers goes against team effort.

again im not anti parser, i just don;t see a need for them. You can be good at the game w.o one. If ppl wanna use it, i don't really care.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Yes i do share the blame as I didn't call you on it, nor made any effort to kick you.

I hope you see where I was going with my statements now.

That... makes no sense. You're not sharing in the blame by not calling me out. No one expects absolute perfection 100% of the time. At this point, you either grossly misunderstand how accountability works or you just want to pat yourself on the back and claim how nice a guy you are for not instantly kicking or calling out

[HyoMinPark]

did anyone in the group notify people that standing in said spot can kill people? no? group fault.

Are you serious? If we are talking about anything other than a 100% blind run—talking about something where people are doing weekly clears for loot/chests—then every member should know the mechanics. So those with Unstable Gravity for V2S should know to 1. Levitate, and 2. Move to their assigned spot after Antilight goes off so they are knocked back away from the rest of the group. And trust me, after one wipe in a learning/clear party to Unstable Gravity, people very much so make it known what was done wrong. If it’s done wrong again, that is blatant ignoring of the mechanic on the behalf of the person who killed half of the raid. And the more they continue to not correct it, the more at fault they become.

you guys are missing a lot of details in your explains such as planning before hand, run/strat explination, leadership. Which is part of doing endgame content. If people fail at doing this stuff they are part of the fault for the mistakes of others.

Most statics read/watch guides on mechanics unless they are doing 100% blind runs. And most give explanations after each failed mechanic so that they don’t fail it again. If we are talking about farm groups in PF, then people joining farm parties should have knowledge of all mechanics in a fight so that they don’t wipe the entire group.

And sometimes a person knows and just fails to pay attention, or moves too soon and screws over the entire group. They are still the one at fault, even if they admit it or don’t admit it. This isn’t finger pointing—it’s taking responsibility for one’s actions. You keep telling us to “grow up”, well, that is being a grown-up: taking responsibility when you are the one at fault rather than forcing the other 7 players to share it. Because it’s not their fault you moved too early and got clipped, or failed to pay attention to the marker over your head and dropped the bad on the rest of the party.

how are people missing this part.

We aren’t missing anything. How are you missing everything we’re saying against your “arguments”? Other than by blatantly ignoring them?

3 ppl cherry picking posts is really nothing. nor proof i "don't know what im talking about" I did endgame in ff11 for 4 years before this type of toxic environment with parser/third party tools killed it.

Do I need to define “cherry picking” for you as well? Providing the examples you so demanded is not “cherry picking.” Some people have replied to your posts in full—the exact opposite of cherry picking. Just because some choose to not repeat themselves when you repeat yourself doesn’t mean that they are cherry picking, or if someone else has already addressed the flaw.

Also, this is not FFXI. They tried to make FFXIV like FFXI, and look what happened to it. Stop using your experience in other MMOs to try and give yourself experience in this one. That’s like applying for a job at a hospital and saying, “Well, I’ve never worked in a hospital, but I did work in a veterinary clinic, so I’m experienced in working in a hospital.” Not the same thing.

I very much know what im talking about, you guys are looking at semantics while leaving out details. Each member has a job to do, a role to play. A leader still needs to be a leader and communicate. And take responsibility, if a run fails. The leader is suppose to organize, communicate, discuss the plan of attack. If the runs plan goes south, everyone is at fault.

A group is a unit, not separate pieces. Pointing fingers is childish. Even if you didn't kill the group, you just are much responsible for not doing your part in the communication for the run. you was a member of that group, you are part of that group, and should take responsibility. Pointing fingers isn't being a good team member.

Do you? Because I really don’t think that you do. You’re trying to blame the party for the tank not mitigating tankbusters, or for one member failing a mechanic that takes out half the group, like V2S’ Unstable Gravity. That is not the fault of the other 7 individuals, but the fault of the player that screwed up the mechanic. And they need to take responsibility for their mistakes. That is part of being in a group, rather than expecting everyone to just hold their hand and “be okay with it” when they continue to make the same mistake, especially after it’s pointed out to them; because, since you are so knowledgable, you should know PF groups on NA data centers are extremely good at pointing out failed mechanics and mistakes.

And if we’re talking about something like a farm party, why is it the leader’s responsibility to hold a player’s hand if they keep messing up mechanics in a FARM PARTY WHERE THEY SHOULD ALREADY KNOW THE MECHANICS? The inexperienced person has no business in a farm party if they don’t know the mechanics; they are the only one at fault for failing the mechanics and wiping the group. Because they have no business being in there, and it’s not the job of PUGs to hold the hand of one PUG that refuses to learn.

If a person doesn’t know a mechanic, then they should speak up, and people will usually explain it to them. If they don’t speak up, again, that is their fault. They didn’t know, didn’t seek any help, and when it wipes the group, there is no one to blame but that one individual for failing to clarify something they were unsure on.

Sigh. Answer me this. Does your static have the following things?

-an attendance policy
-punishments for poor performance, including discipline and even dismissal if the person doesn't change or meet standards
-various requirements to get hired, including aninterview process and background check
-an expectation you don't work for others, i.e. run the raid or get clears with other people

Surprise! Games generally don't have these things, unless the game itself is work (i.e. professional sports)

It's even worse in other games, where you literally get pay, i.e. dkp and gold, and seniority (people longer in the group get priority on drops). But if you've raided for a bit and are thoughtful, the parallels are there. And a lot of the skills you need to run a successful static are simple management skills you use in business daily. It has nothing to do with enjoyment or not.

What. Just...what.

Just because statics expect their members to actually show up when they’ve set aside time for them to all get together and run the content, pull their weight, and not be flaky and/or screw up loot by clearing with randoms or other people does not directly equate “raiding” to “working” like one would at a job, nor does it make this game “less of a game”. This is the most bizarre statement I’ve seen in this thread, and I have seen plenty.

If you don’t like to raid, then don’t. Nobody forces anyone to raid, or participate in content they don’t want to do.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

No one expects absolute perfection 100% of the time.

Blasphemer! Don't you know parsers and the raiding community are powered by perfection? How dare you!?

/s

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Blasphemer! Don't you know parsers and the raiding community are powered by perfection? How dare you!?

/s

[RiyahArp]

No, however I would be pretty annoyed if we previously made plans to go out to dinner or something and you abruptly call me up and say, "Sorry. I can't come because I just got a new game I wanna play." I set aside my schedule for you and you flacked. How is scheduling raid time any different? We all have lives, thus it only makes sense to pick a time where we can all be readily available. So once again, stop telling actual raiders what raiding is to them.

Because there's the whole "we need to get this task done" element that shows up in raiding. it's not like you are playing 4-player Goldeneye or Halo over pizza. You're trying to solve or achieve something, and the person not showing up is hampering that shared goal. It's important they show up for reasons more important than them just being there.

I'm a pretty harsh critic of raid culture in MMOs in general I guess. I don't like how games are mirroring the real world in nasty ways.

[Hruodig]

Sigh. Answer me this. Does your static have the following things?

-an attendance policy
-punishments for poor performance, including discipline and even dismissal if the person doesn't change or meet standards
-various requirements to get hired, including aninterview process and background check
-an expectation you don't work for others, i.e. run the raid or get clears with other people

Surprise! Games generally don't have these things, unless the game itself is work (i.e. professional sports)

It's even worse in other games, where you literally get pay, i.e. dkp and gold, and seniority (people longer in the group get priority on drops). But if you've raided for a bit and are thoughtful, the parallels are there. And a lot of the skills you need to run a successful static are simple management skills you use in business daily. It has nothing to do with enjoyment or not.

You find these things in any extracurricular activity that involves teamwork in order to achieve a goal. Believe it or not, working with a like-minded group of people towards a common goal is an incredibly gratifying and rewarding experience. While they do share commonalities with a "job", you're making the mistake of seeing that as what defines a job or not. I can guarantee you that neither I nor any of my static members see raiding as a job. Why is that?

1. We don't get paid to do it.
2. We enjoy it.
3. We all agreed to do things this way as a collective group. No one is being forced to do anything they don't want to do.

There's also no "punishments", and the idea that you think that there's disciplinary actions going on in your average midcore raiding static is incredibly strange and betraying of your ignorance. The vast majority of statics are made up of a group of friends who want to accomplish a goal together. Do you "punish" your friends when they keep dying in a game? No? Of course not, that's weird as hell (unless you're into kink).

The expectation to "not work for others" is mainly due to the way this game does weekly lock outs, wherein if you "work" for another group, then you're actively sabotaging your own group. If this restriction wasn't in place then it wouldn't be nearly as big of a deal as it is.

Tl;dr you're trying to push a weird narrative that doesn't have basis in general reality. Do groups like you describe exist? Of course, the possible permutations of human beings out there is infinite. However that's absolutely not the norm.

[RiyahArp]

You find these things in any extracurricular activity that involves teamwork in order to achieve a goal. Believe it or not, working with a like-minded group of people towards a common goal is an incredibly gratifying and rewarding experience. While they do share commonalities with a "job", you're making the mistake of seeing that as what defines a job or not. I can guarantee you that neither I nor any of my static members see raiding as a job. Why is that?

1. We don't get paid to do it.
2. We enjoy it.
3. We all agreed to do things this way as a collective group. No one is being forced to do anything they don't want to do.

A volunteer job is as much a job as anything else. And increasingly team activities that require that kind of teamwork are professionalized; it's a huge issue with things like little league or high school sports for example.

There's also no "punishments", and the idea that you think that there's disciplinary actions going on in your average midcore raiding static is incredibly strange and betraying of your ignorance. The vast majority of statics are made up of a group of friends who want to accomplish a goal together. Do you "punish" your friends when they keep dying in a game? No? Of course not, that's weird as hell (unless you're into kink).

The expectation to "not work for others" is mainly due to the way this game does weekly lock outs, wherein if you "work" for another group, then you're actively sabotaging your own group. If this restriction wasn't in place then it wouldn't be nearly as big of a deal as it is.

Tl;dr you're trying to push a weird narrative that doesn't have basis in general reality. Do groups like you describe exist? Of course, the possible permutations of human beings out there is infinite. However that's absolutely not the norm.

oh, come on. Let's say one member of your static is holding you back. You're at a wall because of this guy. Maybe his dps is too low, or he keeps messing up. Or he shows up late. What are you going to do?

You're first going to try to mentor him, i.e. find out what's going wrong, and work on some kind of plan to fix it.

OK, he does this, but he's not hitting the dummy or not changing his timing to show up on time. So you're going to at some point have to escalate it in ways eerily similar to managing at a job. Not entirely, but if he shows up late, you do the static without him. If you see he isn't trying to up his DPS, you warn him verbally. Pretty much tell him shape up or ship out, but in much gentler terms. Again you're trying to work with the guy if possible, but you can't stay at a wall because of this one guy because there's seven of you and one of him.

Worst case, he can't do it or won't do it.

If he can't do it, he quits and you find someone else. No hard feelings. If he won't, you pretty much fire him. It's the same thing as being dropped from a sports team. Otherwise in this game the team breaks up if you don't.

I mean..midcore doesn't change this. If you're sinking any decent time into raiding you want to clear, and midcore statics shed people as much as hardcore.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

I'm a pretty harsh critic of raid culture in MMOs in general I guess. I don't like how games are mirroring the real world in nasty ways.

Art imitates life. And that's meant to be taken neutrally.

[Hruodig]

A volunteer job is as much a job as anything else.

It does drastically alter your mindset however. It changes from "I have to do this to get paid so I can feed my kids/pay bills/not be homeless", to "this is something that I want to do with my free time"

You do see the difference?