Hissatsu: Seigan should reduce enmity

[gyaos]

Don't have a tank leveled, so not really sure what's happening here, but is it because the tanks are getting greedy in DPS stance that we gain so much enmity?

I agree with adding another trait to something dealing with third eye procs to reduce enmity/make it more useful.

[Lambdafish]

Don't have a tank leveled, so not really sure what's happening here, but is it because the tanks are getting greedy in DPS stance that we gain so much enmity?

This thread was started before the enmity modifiers were changed in 4.01. Blame those modifiers and the ease of getting to i340 for tanks being greedy in DPS stance.

[ValentineSnow]

Don't have a tank leveled, so not really sure what's happening here, but is it because the tanks are getting greedy in DPS stance that we gain so much enmity?

I agree with adding another trait to something dealing with third eye procs to reduce enmity/make it more useful.

It's more that an average enmity list will look like this:

MT > SAM > OT >>>>>>>>>>>>>> everyone else.

Even with the party jumping through hoops, OT provoke shirking, NIN smokeboming the SAM and shadewalking the MT and the SAM using diversion, they will still be top of the enmity list. They generate so much enmity and have very little in a way to mitigate it, so the MT ends up having to compensate with enmity combos that they wouldn't have to use if the SAM wasn't there.

It does seem silly that a job that can do a 35k midare setsugekka can say after "damn I didn't direct crit!" and not have any kind of enmity control.

Maybe they could make seigan combine with diversion, so SAMs still have to take it as a role skill but it will be more effective for them. Kind of like how PLD uses rampart with intervention and SCH uses eye for an eye with deployment tactics.

Make seigan's effect something like:
Delivers an attack with a potency of 200, Kenki cost 15, only available under open eyes, additional effect during diverson: reduces enmity.

[Azerhan]

Leveling warrior currently and I agree, there are too many "must have" tank cross role skills making your choices arbitrary.

Melee on the other hand need to constantly change things up from having Arm's Length in Shinryu and someone needs Feint for Halicarnassus. Honestly, though, I'm starting to find that Goad, Invigorate, and even Second Wind aren't really that useful anymore. With the changes to TP you really only need those skills if you or someone else dies (from a raiding perspective) so it really frees up what you can take. Just too many of your choices aren't really worth taking.

We can debate about this, for example, Arm's Length. Is it really important? I don't use it, and I don't die on Tidal, and even on the Tornado spell (sorry, I'm not english and I don't know the name of all Shinryu's abilities) it's not a good idea, since sometime you're linked with another player and it's the last blast that makes the chain break.
Also, I'm using a SAM with the Sks very high, and I just need Invigorate. For Goad, it's important since, as you said, an error can come quickly, and it's helping a lot a player, even during AOE phase (SAM again, but MNK too, and BRD too!).
Second Wind saved my life a lot, if I'm too far from the healer for X reason, or the healers are overwhelmed. Or just, not enough HP to survive to 2 attacks.
However, without that, we can see we haven't a lot of usefull skills. Arm's Length is interresting, and I really love Feint since SB has been release.

I really think cross-role abilities is a bad idea. It's useless, and most of these skills should be added to all jobs that are linked too, it will avoid the "Do you have Goad please?" "No lul" event happening in Raid/ Dungeon.
Same for Shirk, or those who use a slot for Ultimatum...

[Lambdafish]

Same for Shirk, or those who use a slot for Ultimatum...

But without skirk, how will I get back at that SAM who is annoying me?

[Azerhan]

But without skirk, how will I get back at that SAM who is annoying me?

You've misunderstood me, I'm saying that cross-role should be IN all jobs-related. Like all Tanks have Shirk, Rempart, Convalescence... Always.

[Lambdafish]

You've misunderstood me, I'm saying that cross-role should be IN all jobs-related. Like all Tanks have Shirk, Rempart, Convalescence... Always.

I disagree, I like the decision making process, however the ability to save and switch ability sets needs to be made a lot easier before I will see it as a great thing

[Azerhan]

I disagree, I like the decision making process, however the ability to save and switch ability sets needs to be made a lot easier before I will see it as a great thing

If we can swapping without penalties like cost of monney or sceal, I don't see the goal to let us choosing between 5 abilities, since 3/4 of them are always needed.
At least, let us choose between 2 abilities like in pvp should be better imo.

[Kabooa]

I disagree, I like the decision making process, however the ability to save and switch ability sets needs to be made a lot easier before I will see it as a great thing

"Oh there's this mechanic that requires this ability. Better put it on."

It's not much of a process.

[Lambdafish]

"Oh there's this mechanic that requires this ability. Better put it on."

It's not much of a process.

I may be biased because tanks have it best IMO. Rampart is almost always used, and provoke is needed when there are tank swaps, but skills like shirk, convalescence, reprisal, Anticipation and Awareness have always been a discussion with my co-tank, and would change as I learn the fight. Maybe I feel like I can drop a tank cooldown in order for additional utility, or perhaps shirk is better to assist with the tank swap. These are questions that make fights more interesting, and I would like to see this system expanded upon.