Built-in Parsers

[Niwashi]

I'm talking about PF group where the requirements are clearly set by the content (enrage or other DPS check) and / or party leader ("must bring good enough DPS to beat enrage") for content where those things matter (Extremes, Savage, Ultimate). I've clearly specified this in my previous posts too, that this should be the content where the official parser is even added (as an optional feature for premade groups).

Ok, I may have missed a bit of the discussion trying to catch up on this as well as a number of other things. So long as the feature is limited to only being available in those situations, while both it and the combat log details that allow third party programs are disabled in all other content, I wouldn't mind so much about a parser being party-wide.

But even there it's not necessary. You can just as well discuss with your party members why an attempt failed. In fact, that will generally do better for you than simply having the parser give out everyone's numbers, because although low DPS can cause a wipe, it's far from being the only problem that can. The combination of personal parsers and a group willing to talk to each other gives you everything a party-wide parser would.

And given that I do think we need the personal parser regardless, and available much sooner, in all dungeons/trials, I think that's what SE should focus on. Provide us the part that's useful everywhere. Remove the part that leads to both inequality of access and to harassment. Then in the specific cases where more info would be helpful, it's content where you should be communicating with your team anyway.

[Shihen]

Don't some parties already check logs before inviting? I get that logs are from third party software and thus optional, but an in-game parser would be optional as well, no? What is it about parsers would suddenly turn the PF into a toxic cesspool? I see a few parties that check logs before inviting and, my logs being trash, steer clear of them. The vast majority of parties don't care about logs, or don't say that they do, and it's a much better indicator of performance than dps alone. So why is there such a strong belief that parsers will ruin party finder, burn our houses to the ground, and turn Eorzea into Azeroth overnight when logs provide a much more detailed picture of a player's performance and already exist? Serious question.

[Hruodig]

Your post is a great example of the Casuals versus the Hardcores conflict I referred to in an earlier post. You call them bads; but, the reality is many of those players have different goals than you. They aren't playing the game competitively. They are just playing a game.

Now, that doesn't mean you are wrong for playing the way you play. It just means you are looking at the situation in the wrong way. If you randomly group with players you should realize all of your group may not be looking at the game the same way you are. I feel the best solution is to form parties with like minded people, much like the original post suggested with its parser options.

Shine on!

Is the end goal for all content in the game not to clear the encounter? By reducing the boss's hp to 0?

[Taika]

But even there it's not necessary. You can just as well discuss with your party members why an attempt failed. In fact, that will generally do better for you than simply having the parser give out everyone's numbers, because although low DPS can cause a wipe, it's far from being the only problem that can. The combination of personal parsers and a group willing to talk to each other gives you everything a party-wide parser would.

Imagine a situation: a group will keep wiping to enrage despite all members having capped item level gear, no one is failing mechanics and dying, and everyone seems to be doing their correct rotation. The issue is clearly DPS, so party leader asks everyone to call out their personal parser numbers. Everyone is calling numbers high enough that the party should clear the fight without an issue. Of course the real problem is, one or more people are lying. They can be lying because they know their performance is far from decent, or they can be lying because their performance is just a tiny bit under what it should be (while someone else is doing significantly worse). Same with healing: one healer calls a high HPS number, the other one calls one really close to it. Both of them are lying, but no one will know. People who are currently using the dont ask dont tell policy to blame others for their shortcomings could keep doing just that (I have seen people getting kicked for "low DPS" while people doing the kicking were in fact doing much worse, and no one could defend them because they'd risk getting reported and banned).

A group parser would do absolutely no harm, but it would add transparency, and as such, fairness.

Obviously, a group should talk about performance, and parse numbers aren't the only thing that matter: they need to be put in context. But what's a better start for good party discussion about strategies to reach the common goal than knowing where the party is currently standing? Why would there be a need to hide that knowledge? In all likelihood people would just get asked to take screenshots of their logs for others to view or something ridiculous as that (or people would just keep using 3rd party group parsers to see if people are telling the truth about their personal numbers)...

[akaneakki]

Why does people go againts bullying and toxic players, yet many in here advocate that we need to carry people? No I don't and nobody should feel obligated to carry someone who does half of the stuff a player does. 98% of the content can be done with 7 people, just because you can do it with 7 and 8 can hang around, doesn't mean its fair towards the 7 others. Get a grip. Don't talk about being toxic when you actually force people to do shit for others. What's that word again? Greedy?

[Kacho_Nacho]

Is the end goal for all content in the game not to clear the encounter? By reducing the boss's hp to 0?

Of course! The difference is some players are more concerned about efficiency than others.

Many players get a thrill out of bringing a boss's health to zero as fast as possible. They base their performance against the highest level of performance.

Meanwhile, many other players are happy just being "good enough." If the boss dies, it's a win. See the difference?

It's two ways of looking at an MMORPG. That's why parsers are such a hot topic.

[Dualgunner]

I was having net issues, but anyone and everyone had a chance to watch any and all live letters. they are archived on both youtube and the forums.
this post and suggestion has come up over 12 times since ARR. A forum search, and google of the live letters would bring up info. People are so keen for others to research content in ff14 with just "google it" as a tip, don't be shocked when others suggest the same for repeat topics.

Yoshida is sick of seeing parser requests that he also noped out from a live letter at an event.

That's going a long way to say "You should do the legwork to back up my claims for me." To which I say no, and that which is claimed without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

[DeaconMoore]

If you're really interested in using an in game parser to improve your performance why not just build it into target dummies? I don't get the split the queue in parser non-parser group thing.

[Taika]

If you're really interested in using an in game parser to improve your performance why not just build it into target dummies?

This has already been answered multiple times in this thread (first time on page 2 and latest time only 2 pages ago with my settings... so maybe consider reading a bit of the thread before replying to it? ): because your DPS in a dummy fight is a completely different thing from your DPS in a specific fight with specific mechanics. A person may do perfect dummy DPS rotation and still fail a DPS check on their part in a fight. First of all, because you should be adjusting your rotation for each fight, secondly because it's a different thing to perform a rotation when you have nothing else to think about and performing a rotation when you also need to handle mechanics, and thirdly because you need to adjust your rotation to things like buffs from other players. I'm sure these are not the only differences between the two, but they were the ones first coming to my mind.

[DeaconMoore]

This has already been answered multiple times in this thread (first time on page 2 and latest time only 2 pages ago with my settings... so maybe consider reading a bit of the thread before replying to it? ): because your DPS in a dummy fight is a completely different thing from your DPS in a specific fight with specific mechanics. A person may do perfect dummy DPS rotation and still fail a DPS check on their part in a fight. First of all, because you should be adjusting your rotation for each fight, secondly because it's a different thing to perform a rotation when you have nothing else to think about and performing a rotation when you also need to handle mechanics, and thirdly because you need to adjust your rotation to things like buffs from other players. I'm sure these are not the only differences between the two, but they were the ones first coming to my mind.

So you don't want the parser to perfect your output you want it to know which classes to favor for particular fights?