Isn't it about time for WHM to get an AOE mitigation tool?

[Miles_Maelstrom]

I do love this forum and how its oddball rules create these fun little situations.

I know right. I don't even understand them. 1k character limit, any reason I can think of is negated. You can edit to extend past 1k so it's not a coding space issue with posts. When you edit you can add more than 1k to the post you edited, so it's not to throttle input into the forums. I just don't get this arbitrary rule.

[Miste]

snip

You can backpedal all of your previous statements as long as you feel like it. I honestly don't care lol. I wasn't trying to prove anything only that WHM has options to to heal for as much as Indom and ES because the person I was responding to said that Indom and ES trivializes any AoE damage and implying that WHM can't at all no matter what they do (this is obviously false).

You likely just assumed I had some kind of reason to compare it beyond that when I didn't. I am not trying to prove that any healer is stronger than another. I think healers are pretty balanced right now. So if you did assume such a thing then that assumption has dug the hole you are now stuck in.

You have proven that you make arbitrary rules about what you can compare to WHM and what you can't, but then if someone challenges you with those same rules they suddenly don't apply to the other healers.

You are basically holding up a shield to defend WHM from comparisons you "think" are unfair, but if anyone mentions the other healers it is suddenly okay to make those same comparisons and you will hypocritically change the rules.

You consistently cherry pick by the way so psychologically projecting it onto me doesn't really mean anything except hypocrisy even if my posts could be misinterpreted as cherry picking. For example, lol @ AST having advantage cause of AoE Bole. Bole. Thank you, you made me smile.

Healing wise, AST and WHM are relatively even, but AST has cards and whm has cure 3

Ah finally, it seems we have finally cleared that up! Took you a couple of pages to listen to me and for another poster to point it out to you again as well, but hey I can accept it.

I don't know why you are comparing Cure III to AST cards though, kinda odd. WHM has higher personal DPS compared to AST that would seem to me to be logically the proper comparison to an AST's cards. I mean to me it is obvious why AST's personal DPS is lower it is because they have cards. WHM being higher also makes sense in this case because they don't have cards. Just my opinion on it though.



PS. Who the heck said anything about spamming Medica II to get 3 plenary lol jeez that is completely from left field. No one ever said such a thing so yeah what are you going on about now?

[Exiled_Tonberry]

MP cost of spells is irrelevant for WHM, they have nigh infinite MP if you know how to use your cooldowns.

I really wonder how many people actually believe this, considering how many people starred your comment. This is just not true. Sure WHMs MP is easier to manage, and Thin Air is definitely powerful, but overall all the healers can manage their MP more or less equally.

WHM isn't some infinite MP machine that people make it out to be, it simply frontloads all of it's MP saving tools and that makes it more noticeable than, say, Aetherflow/Luminiferous +1-2 Energy Drains every 45 seconds or an extended Luminiferous from AST.

To say WHM MP cost is irrelevant is just silly.

[miraidensetsu]

I really wonder how many people actually believe this, considering how many people starred your comment. This is just not true. Sure WHMs MP is easier to manage, and Thin Air is definitely powerful, but overall all the healers can manage their MP more or less equally.

WHM isn't some infinite MP machine that people make it out to be, it simply frontloads all of it's MP saving tools and that makes it more noticeable than, say, Aetherflow +1-2 Energy Drains every 45 seconds or an extended Luminiferous from AST.

To say WHM MP cost is irrelevant is just silly.

Totaly agree.

And someone can think some situation where a WHM can actually be OOM, such as the party member is dying often, for example. Even considering that the mana management tools available to WHM is way more powerful now than were at Heavensward.

[technole]

You need a raid accident the size of Texas to run out of MP on White Mage, that's how wide it has to be.

Scholar is #2 on MP but it's not far behind by any means considering each patch following SB has helped it's MP economy. (potency changes, cost reduction, dissipation buffed as side-effects).

[Estelle9lives]

I really wonder how many people actually believe this, considering how many people starred your comment. This is just not true. Sure WHMs MP is easier to manage, and Thin Air is definitely powerful, but overall all the healers can manage their MP more or less equally.

WHM isn't some infinite MP machine that people make it out to be, it simply frontloads all of it's MP saving tools and that makes it more noticeable than, say, Aetherflow/Luminiferous +1-2 Energy Drains every 45 seconds or an extended Luminiferous from AST.

To say WHM MP cost is irrelevant is just silly.

I'm speaking from personal experience. Even during week 1 prog the only situations where I found myself out of MP were specific cases where I died twice in a row and had absolutely no CDs + Brink of Death.

I disagree with you that healer MP management is equal, and I find you're underestimating just how powerful Thin Air is. It's up for nearly all Almagests in O4S neutralizing CureIII/Medica II's cost entirely. It can completely neutralize the cost of two raises within the CD duration, that equals to 7200 MP. And more than that WHM also has Assize for a free 10% MP recover each 60s or less.

SCH has good mana management now with reduced shield costs and ED, but Astro has much less resources, their only tool outside Lucid Dreaming being locked behind RNG - and even then, you dont really want to Ewer yourself while playing optimally. In a perfect world sure, all your CO's will line up neatly with Lucid, but in practice this just doesnt happen due to card RNG, since you want to extend the effects of the most beneficial cards.

[Tridus]

AST has a resource in Ewer, it's just that people don't want to use it that way because they'd rather RR it. And you can do that, but you get to pay something for that.

[Risvertasashi]

AST has a resource in Ewer, it's just that people don't want to use it that way because they'd rather RR it. And you can do that, but you get to pay something for that.

People made this same argument back in the abysmal state of AST in 3.0 HW -- also back when ASTs using Ewer on themselves was a meme.

The problem with this is exactly the opportunity cost. What's the point of a job that buffs others, if you have to spend them on yourself just to keep yourself going? (And it's RNG so even if you do vitally need it, it's not guaranteed at all).

Not saying AST MP management is weak anymore -- it absolutely isn't. But Ewer is a red herring when it comes to MP management.

[Exiled_Tonberry]

I disagree with you that healer MP management is equal, and I find you're underestimating just how powerful Thin Air is.

I understand how powerful Thin Air is. You can frontload as many heals as you want within its window. But it doesn't give you the power to simply neglect your MP through the entirety of a fight. I find myself, in O4s and Shinryu, running very low on MP quite often, along with my co healer at the time.

I suppose it depends on a few things as well. How much time you spend dpsing, how often your bard/MCH plays refresh, How many members die and requires you to raise them. In my experience, with my playstyle, I will hit 20% or less MP somewhere in that fight on WHM.


As far as MP being more or less equal:
WHM has Thin Air, Assize, and Lucid Dreaming.
SCH has Aetherflow, Energy Drain, and Lucid Dreaming
AST has Ewer and a extended Lucid Dreaming.

AST is the weakest in MP recovery, but their low MP cost makes up for it so they end up being just as MP efficient as any other healer.

WHM is indeed the most efficient, but SCH is a very close second as of this patch. Not nearly as strong for all MP costs to be negligible as you said.

[Rawr18]

I don't think WHM needs aoe mitigation, but I do think they need to make lilies more interactive to give WHM more oomph to their healing. They need to do more than just simple CD reductions, something to make them more interactive like what the other healers have.

For example: Casting asylum with lilies available will increase its radius by 5%/10%/15%. This would help immensely in 24 man raids where people like to avoid it like the plague.

And change their lvl 68 trait to something that isn't hot garbage (Seriously, what was SE thinking). Maybe to something where you get lilies by casting stones and aero ticks OR the CD for assize is reduced by 5 seconds for every 3 lilies used.

I think these would bolster the "pure healing" play style that SE wants while making it more enjoyable and not take away the niche mechanics from the other healers.