Please Buff Tenacity So Tanks Actually Want To Use Tank Stance

[Derio]

If tenacity gets buffed it will only make you want to go into tank stance even less.

The only other option is to have tankbusters that prevent you from dropping tank stance so often

[Soraki-Muppe]

Before I say anything else I have to mention how Shirk is clear proof that the devs have no intention to force tanks to use tank stance.
So to my opinions on this matter. If the devs want tanks to use tank stance then they have to design the content in such a way that it becomes a must, said content would also have to be designed so that the tank who is tanking find it fun, challenging and interesting to tank in tank stance, while at the same moment make it close to impossible to tank that fight in dps stance.
To remove the dps penalty for staying in dps stance would actually not change anything for WAR who have to stay in dps stance in order to access their burst. To add penalty to tanking in dps stance would drive players away. The current content does not demand that players stay in tank stance, all damage is centered around tank buster for which we have more then enough cooldowns (DRK could use some love in that department though), a change here is the only way but that change has to result in content where it is fun and challenging to tank in tank stance and not simply something that is forced upon us.

[konpachizaraki]

tank stance should have their damage penalty erased if you want tank to stay in it longer
or even better, mix dps stance and tank stance into one so tank don't need to stance dance and they can just stick to one

[Awha]

Why do people want to stay in tank stance longer then they have to?

[Llus]

No amount of extra mitigation or damage buff will make tanks stay in tank stance after the initial pull. If a stat will increase your damage in tank stance, it will increase it in DPS stance. So a 20% boost to damage in tank stance means a net 0 gain in tank stance and a 20% gain to move into DPS stance. This also means PLDs get their extra 70 potency attack at another 20%, warriors get another 20% damage to their fell cleave+onslaught+upheaval burst and darks gain another 20% to their DA bursts.

Those tanks that stay in tank stance the entire time either don't know how to tank in FFXIV, are afraid they'll lose hate to healers putting up HoTs before pulls, massively AoE overhealing or DPS that don't use their aggro mitigation or are staying in tank stance to learn the fight before optimizing. If your problem is with tanks becoming floor tanks because of busters, they need to learn the fight better so they have better use of their CDs and until they learn the fight tank stance should be used. Healers can learn the fight too so they can maximize their CDs for busters and raid-wide damage. When tanks that know the fight and healers that know the fight and optimize their CD usage, the synergy between everyone (DPS included) goes through the roof and the fight becomes simple and quick. The biggest complaint about tanks in tank stance seem to come from people that don't know how to manage their hate (Tanks, DPS & Healers are responsible for aggro), or people unfamiliar with the fight (Tanks, Healers and DPS are responsible for damage mitigation and healing) any 1 person to fail their responsibility puts extra pressure on the rest of the group to make up for it and that usually ends up being "blame the healer" or "blame the tank".

[Baci]

And by buff I mean make tenacity stat increase attack power and direct hit rate stats so that way melding becomes less of a hassle for tanks and somewhat make crafted pentamelds not mandatory for clearing... maybe even have it apply to Defense and Magic Defense... it can do what it currently can do but also what I suggested for buffs...

Crafted pentamelds are not Mandatory for clearing.
The only TEN change you suggested which TEN doesnt already so is increase Dhit and that would be a retarded change

[Mycow8me]

They could make the affects of tenacity double (or even x1.5) in grit/defiance/shieldoath, and that would actually make people use some if not all tenacity melds. Boss tankbusters might need a bit of balancing though after a change like that. It would at the very least put main tanks in their respected tank stance for tanking.

[Zfz]

• Make tanking stances buff your Tenacity stat, maybe double what you have?
• Remove damage penalty of tanking stances, and give dps stances an enmity reduction
• Lock damage reduction cooldowns behind the tanking stances
• Lock all enhanced enmity effects of all skills and abilities behind tanking stances
• Give tanking stances a stacking damage reflection that scales on Tenacity
• Give tanking stances an aura that improves party member stats: PLD aura +x% determination, WAR aura +y% crit rate, DRK aura +z% direct hit

I don't know. It seems that the devs want there to exist some sort of trade-off and define that as the "skill" of a tank player; i.e. knowing when to use what stance makes you more effective. Hence the damage penalty and how the damage reduction cooldowns are mostly not locked behind the tanking stances.

Honestly I don't like the current design, but it seems to be a theme with tanks and healers. Healers need to balance between dps and healing, and tanks need to balance between dps and survivability. The problem with tanks is that they can't seem to decide how fluid they want the transitions, and that influences the encounter design, and we end up with the bullshit that "good tanks spend the minimal amount of time in the tanking stance"---put in another way, there's no trade-off between dps and survivability in the vast majority of the time, because surviability isn't a problem.

I would be interested to main tank again if tank stance changes can be more meaningful and more fluid, or removed altogether.

[Llus]

• Make tanking stances buff your Tenacity stat, maybe double what you have?
• Remove damage penalty of tanking stances, and give dps stances an enmity reduction
• Lock damage reduction cooldowns behind the tanking stances
• Lock all enhanced enmity effects of all skills and abilities behind tanking stances
• Give tanking stances a stacking damage reflection that scales on Tenacity
• Give tanking stances an aura that improves party member stats: PLD aura +x% determination, WAR aura +y% crit rate, DRK aura +z% direct hit

I don't know. It seems that the devs want there to exist some sort of trade-off and define that as the "skill" of a tank player; i.e. knowing when to use what stance makes you more effective. Hence the damage penalty and how the damage reduction cooldowns are mostly not locked behind the tanking stances.

Honestly I don't like the current design, but it seems to be a theme with tanks and healers. Healers need to balance between dps and healing, and tanks need to balance between dps and survivability. The problem with tanks is that they can't seem to decide how fluid they want the transitions, and that influences the encounter design, and we end up with the bullshit that "good tanks spend the minimal amount of time in the tanking stance"---put in another way, there's no trade-off between dps and survivability in the vast majority of the time, because surviability isn't a problem.

I would be interested to main tank again if tank stance changes can be more meaningful and more fluid, or removed altogether.

So you would tank if you didn't have to be good at it?

[ManuelBravo]

• Make tanking stances buff your Tenacity stat, maybe double what you have?
• Remove damage penalty of tanking stances, and give dps stances an enmity reduction
• Lock damage reduction cooldowns behind the tanking stances
• Lock all enhanced enmity effects of all skills and abilities behind tanking stances
• Give tanking stances a stacking damage reflection that scales on Tenacity
• Give tanking stances an aura that improves party member stats: PLD aura +x% determination, WAR aura +y% crit rate, DRK aura +z% direct hit

I don't know. It seems that the devs want there to exist some sort of trade-off and define that as the "skill" of a tank player; i.e. knowing when to use what stance makes you more effective. Hence the damage penalty and how the damage reduction cooldowns are mostly not locked behind the tanking stances.

Honestly I don't like the current design, but it seems to be a theme with tanks and healers. Healers need to balance between dps and healing, and tanks need to balance between dps and survivability. The problem with tanks is that they can't seem to decide how fluid they want the transitions, and that influences the encounter design, and we end up with the bullshit that "good tanks spend the minimal amount of time in the tanking stance"---put in another way, there's no trade-off between dps and survivability in the vast majority of the time, because surviability isn't a problem.

I would be interested to main tank again if tank stance changes can be more meaningful and more fluid, or removed altogether.

So in other words make tank role easy enough that even the most incompetent of players can play the role? Tanking takes skill, knowledge of mechanics, and tactics. Right now they seem well balance and if anything people who understand it can play it with the exception of newer savage content. I think it's more of the players that need more training on the role than the job it self. If anything I would give a boost to Cool downs.

Addition: Not sure Mira Celeniq is your main you really don't have tank role level enough to really judge it from my perspective. If your 70 on them they make more sense. IF you do have an alternate tank maxed out you may want to specify which one and compare it to others. Other wise the only advice I can give you is level them up and then judge.