Can we have some sort of Wolves Den personal dps meter?

[Geryth]

I'm not so sure it would be as useful for PvP, though I've seen a lot of people pull significantly low damage numbers, as shown at the end of matches. But damage in PvP is still generally about bursts at the right time more than standard rotations. You've also got to factor in mitigation and cc skills, as well as skills that perhaps lower an opponent's damage as well.

It's not a bad idea, but just as easily, learn your job's burst rotation and how to manage/stay active in between burst windows, and you should have no issues at all.

This.

As something like a BLM you're going to be CC'd and focused to hell so you're going to spend a lot of time running away from melee and tossing out sleeps.

What's important is burst. If you do low damage overall but time your attacks to secure kills, you've done a better job at helping your team win then just throwing out raw numbers.

Perhaps such a PvP damage tool could challenge you to do X amount of damage within a small Y timeframe. That'll teach you how to perform burst on your job.

You'll have to get creative at times, too though. For instance, as a BLM, sleep the healer and immediately drop cometeor on their head. If it connects swiftcast into Foul. Find things like that that your job can do and time them to secure kills rather than focusing on DPS.

[Gallus]

This.

As something like a BLM you're going to be CC'd and focused to hell so you're going to spend a lot of time running away from melee and tossing out sleeps.

Yeah, and as a bard, for example, you'll be uninterrupted for like 99% of the fight...
I'm aware of the things that make you win a match. There are shields, heals, cc, focus handling, limit breaks, adrenaline rushes, the wolf's heart. All those things play an important role when winning a match. Still, I don't see why this wouldn't be a bonus. You handle mechanics and stop dpsing in PVE too no? And yet we have sss.

[Commander_Justitia]

Still, I don't see why this wouldn't be a bonus.

If you give players a tool to rank themselves they will do it with the data they get. At the moment you can already see the DMG dealt after every match or frontline session, as it doesnt matter at all in PvP if you managed to pull out high numbers in 8minutes, it is already a bad start to begin with. Players who deal damage in culling time, on people with medal stacks, on people who are not shielded, will deal more unmitigated damage. If there are many dead players in your match you already have more downtime. If enemy team has a good healer, he will mitigate way more and vice versa needs way less healing to keep people alive.(less healing doesnt mean = bad healer)


Damage is calculated different from PvE, you can tell exactly by the potency of the skill how much damage it will deal, which makes it very easy to tell how much output you could potentially do.

The only information we can derive from these damage numbers are if the players are able to press 1-2-3 repeatedly over 8 min if they manage to get over ~ 100k damage. If not then they are most likely afk or not trying or died 10 times. Everything other is really very depended on the course of the match.

In PvP the player can decide how he intents to kill and wipe the enemy team, if the player prefers a fast/burst style or a slow pressure/cc style, this is different to PvE and a reason why we don't need SSS, in PvE you only want as much damage as possible while handling mechanics.

[Gallus]

If you give players a tool to rank themselves they will do it with the data they get. At the moment you can already see the DMG dealt after every match or frontline session, as it doesnt matter at all in PvP if you managed to pull out high numbers in 8minutes, it is already a bad start to begin with. Players who deal damage in culling time, on people with medal stacks, on people who are not shielded, will deal more unmitigated damage. If there are many dead players in your match you already have more downtime. If enemy team has a good healer, he will mitigate way more and vice versa needs way less healing to keep people alive.(less healing doesnt mean = bad healer)


Damage is calculated different from PvE, you can tell exactly by the potency of the skill how much damage it will deal, which makes it very easy to tell how much output you could potentially do.

You talk as if there weren't a million variables in pve, you have people dying there, weaknesses, mechanics either locking you or preventing you from dps properly, inflated aoe dps with adds, a million buffs, different team comps that give you more single target dps, and an endless etc. In fact, there are A LOT more variables in pve than in pvp, yet we have SSS right? By your logic, SSS is pointless because it doesn't take into account all the above variables. Guess what? I've spent dozens of hours in SSS practising stuff and comparing numbers, and I'm grateful SE added this. A parser isn't the beginning and end of everything, but it can help you understand in what order you should presss your buttons in order to maximize your damage, regardless we are talking about simple or more complex rotations.

The only information we can derive from these damage numbers are if the players are able to press 1-2-3 repeatedly over 8 min if they manage to get over ~ 100k damage. If not then they are most likely afk or not trying or died 10 times. Everything other is really very depended on the course of the match.

By this logic all DPS players do the same damage unless they are afk. Clearly NOT the case.

[Commander_Justitia]

You talk as if there weren't a million variables in pve, you have people dying there, weaknesses, mechanics either locking you or preventing you from dps properly, inflated aoe dps with adds, a million buffs, different team comps that give you more single target dps, and an endless etc.

In PvE you want the highest dps output over a long time. In PvP you don't. If you can't accept that, we will never agree on something.

Even PvE parser software is not something I like personally, as you stated out there are many variables which are going to have an effect on your total dps. The fflogs website tried to minimize unfair advantages like waiting for a big mob group before killing the boss, or destroying all 3 traps at susano eventhough only 1 is the objective and needed. But in the end it is not a tool to know if somebody is overly skilled or not, sadly often members of speedkill groups fail to adjust to other groups tactics and are wasting a lot of time in the process, because they are simply 2 greedy. With the right group you get fast clear times and that is step 1 in getting a high dps anyway, even if you perform bad.
People started to using parser as a helpful tool because they wanted to know what killed them or what type of damage physical/magical certain attacks had, but of course some people wanted to compare themselves and so the whole ranking bs began. It is fine to an extent but not so reliable as many wish it to be.

By your logic, SSS is pointless because it doesn't take into account all the above variables.

The system of SSS is since the A9S-A12S raidtier poorly implemented. The reasons are just obvious, you can beat the fights without managing to clear the dummy. The dummy requires way more uptime and optimization to your rotation than the actual fight.
I am not saying that is pointless to do SSS, it can help you test out rotations and see if you get better with it if you are on a playstation and don't have access to third party software.


A dps meter would not be a sufficient tool to judge people, atm you have to get a feeling for it to determine if a dps class performed poorly or good, like you said it is not something with just 1 variable. But adding something like this would make a lot of players believe it would be just 1 variable.

[Gallus]

I don't fully agree with that, I've already said I agree game is mostly about bursts and CC, but keeping high damage pressure is important too, and I completely disagree about that damage pressure being 1,2,3 like you claimed before, there's a bit more to it than 1,2,3. You hit like a wet noodle for 90% of the fight and fail your well timed bursts and you are just as bad because a healer doesn't run out of MP by healing one burst every minute.

As for your posts... let me ask you something... you don't seem to be a big fan of SSS or fflogs in the first place. I know fflogs can have a lot of biased numbers (and can generate some elitism), but don't you think its pros outshined its cons?

[Geryth]

Yeah, and as a bard, for example, you'll be uninterrupted for like 99% of the fight...
I'm aware of the things that make you win a match. There are shields, heals, cc, focus handling, limit breaks, adrenaline rushes, the wolf's heart. All those things play an important role when winning a match. Still, I don't see why this wouldn't be a bonus. You handle mechanics and stop dpsing in PVE too no? And yet we have sss.

Fair points. I support the idea - it would only serve to help people.

If you're looking for a tool to personally see what your job is capable of, there are things like Advanced Combat Tracker + wolve's den dummies that will give you the information you want, just maybe not as helpful in gauging burst.

[Gallus]

Fair points. I support the idea - it would only serve to help people.

If you're looking for a tool to personally see what your job is capable of, there are things like Advanced Combat Tracker + wolve's den dummies that will give you the information you want, just maybe not as helpful in gauging burst.

As a PS4 player, I can't do that...