SE even said they won't add a new tank class in this expansion because they want to work on the balance as it didn't work out too well in HW.
Now we're back to square one and they won't fucking balance the tanks like they promised.
SE even said they won't add a new tank class in this expansion because they want to work on the balance as it didn't work out too well in HW.
Now we're back to square one and they won't fucking balance the tanks like they promised.
Listening is an active process. A lot of MMO devs out there recognise the need for two way communication for the fanbase. While the language barrier will always be an extra hurdle to overcome, at the end of the day, your customers will only remember that your competition is doing something that you aren't.
One critical difference from HW is the frequency with which we're seeing balance adjustments. Waiting to interact with the devs in the odd Live Letter with open Q&A might have worked when change was slower. Now, with the faster pacing, they seem out of touch with the current state of the game in their interviews. It's even worse when these critical balance adjustments are released mere hours before major raid content is released.
I was impressed when they actually registered a response to WHM concerns following the SB media tour. Even a simple "hey, we recognise that there's a problem and we're still listening" goes a long way. But I suppose your investment in your playerbase is a bit different when you're trying to sell an expansion, as opposed to when it's already been sold.
I understand that it's nigh impossible to balance everything at once. What worries me is that we've given up even trying.
During the SB promotional tour, the devs claimed that the tanks would be rebalanced. PLD was to get necessary buffs to increase its usage. WAR was to have checks and balances put in place to ensure that it was less universally used. As of the present patch, the only tank that has received any net nerf from HW is DRK. They plundered our role actions. They sabotaged our resource generation. It feels like they did it because DRK's playerbase, as a community, is the "safer" target. It's not.
Even if you're not a DRK main, this philosophy should concern you. What happens when we get a fourth tank? Flavour of the month balance is like playing roulette.
Jobs are not just promotional tools to sell an expansion. Players get attached to them. I can play both WAR and PLD in raid content. I was fine with being a WAR main before DRK existed. But I'm not interested in going back. It feels too slow. The rotation is too static and predictable. I don't enjoy it. I don't want to be forced off of a job that I like playing just because the alternative offers significantly more dps for less effort and mandatory utility.
You don't need months of research to figure out that there's a problem (although if you look at the clears over the past few months, you can see that in the trends anyways - I've posted the results myself). Look at each action, and look at its analogues on other jobs. What does Shadow Wall offer that Sentinel and Vengeance doesn't? When would your healers ever thank you for bringing LD over Hallowed and Holmgang?
I think that somewhere along the line, we've reached the mindset that everything has to involve more effort on DRK. You want to use that oGCD? It's a forced double weave (because Dark Arts everything) that's probably going to clip. You want to use your big two minute cooldown? Without 16-23 seconds of continuous uptime, it's like you never even used it.
This isn't a problem when everyone has something unique to offer to offset their deficiencies. I don't mind working harder for similar results. I just don't want to do it for less.
In HW, we were the most mobile tank. In SB, the devs gave that to WAR, through a gap closer that has half the recast and generates enmity. We gained something fun and interesting in TBN, but in fairness, there's nothing that TBN can do that can't be better addressed through the new Cover, the new Intervention, and Sheltron, and the tuning of the skill discourages its intended use. The devs give away Reprisal and make it cross-role, and then proceed to give the other two tanks their own Divine Veil analogues. Why? They gave away Dark Dance as Anticipation, but kept Raw Intuition and Bulwark. I can't see the logic behind any of this. The job has an actual numerical deficit in actions relative to the other two. How can the devs be missing this?
I honestly don't care if the devs admit that they're baffled by tank balance and don't know how to fix it right now. I just want an honest acknowledgement of the problem.
Last edited by Lyth; 10-08-2017 at 05:21 PM.
It is hubris. Mere hubris.
I watched that documentary about FFXIV months ago about how they turned the game around with ARR. They were successful because they decided to break the mold, overcome their egos and listen to fans.
Apples don't fall too far from their own trees tho.
History just repeats itself.
It's been how many weeks since Stormblood? How do they not see the problem with PLD doing as much as WARs, and having the most potent mitigation kit out of all the tanks. So PLDs basically do a lot of damage AND take very little damage, please balance this. Not to mention that at a hardcore level, DRK's dps AND defensive rotation requires a lot more attention than PLD and WAR; are DRKs rewarded for playing perfectly though? No. Why does a class that ignores when party buffs come out, doesn't need to pay attention to it's gauge, has one of the strongest DoTs in the game, and has a block (-26%) every 25 secs, do SO. MUCH. DAMAGE. It's little effort for high reward, not very satisfying for people that enjoy challenges.
Side-note: Isn't WAR supposed to have highest damage potential and lowest defense? Why are they even giving them a new defensive skill?
I can't even complain too hard. I've felt since the beginning of SB that every non-PLD tank feels garbage, and now that WAR isn't garbage, it's technically closer to being what I want. But DRK needed help a lot more than WAR did and they just ignored it.
It's more than a little frustrating.
Whew, that was intense.
I think individuals are getting a tad bit worked up.
Continue to be constructive, continue to provide ample data in-game to assist in supporting claims.
Wait for dialogue.. they have a history of coming through. We can put the pitchforks down and understand that most adjustments are from the initial expansion release and more will be coming.
Being vocal is the only way to get things done. If that doesn't work then money does (or lack thereof).
I've already unsubbed in preparation for the release of 4.1 as my protest. If they think my job isn't worth their time and effort then that's their problem.
Meanwhile I'll be playing something else. The average game has more developer interaction with the community through Reddit and Twitter than the FFXIV devs do with us on the official forums.
That's just sad.
Best of luck to you during your protest.
Warrior has the best defensive kit of the tanks by a wide margin - not that it matters much.
Last I checked they also do more damage (generally, though that might depend on the situation).
Why does having a strong DoT necessarily matter? The form of damage doesn't really matter, does it? Actually, physical DoTs are worse than other forms of damage because they're unaffected by resistance debuffs and don't work when the boss jumps. Seriously I would like a response to this one because I see it pop up a lot and it's mind boggling. Paladin could have a 5000 potency attack but if it was on a 9 minute cooldown and all of their other attacks did 0 they would suck. I think people would still complain about it because for some reason it gets people's panties in a bunch to see paladin have a hard hitting attack.
You have a Genji weapon so I'm assuming you've completed the raid. When have you felt that Dark Knight has held you back this expansion? I'm not seeing it. Dark Knight is a little weaker than the other tanks and it's boring. It's not a cripple.
I agree that Dark Knight needs some stuff if only to keep it from being so boring but some of you guys are being ridiculous.
Last edited by Brannigan; 10-10-2017 at 10:57 AM.
I have yet to see a WAR that has taken less damage than a PLD on logs with an equal amount of tanking uptime using their proper mitigation, please show me if you have seen this. WAR's defensive recast times are superior to both PLD and DRK, however, PLD's passive block to both physical and magic damage, sheltron's 100% block rate, and hallowed ground makes them the strongest in mitigation. Goring Blade IS affected by slashing, hypercharge, TA, brotherhood, and embolden, but not like that matters since PLDs don't even need to optimize around party buffs to be optimal.
Having done speedruns several of times on both PLD and DRK, it's pretty clear to say that PLD is too overpowered for how little effort you need to put into it. If you're gonna talk about just simply clearing a raid (which is what i'm assuming you do), then you're going to find no problems with any jobs since they are all fully capable of meeting the min. dps and heal checks.
Last edited by akisya; 10-10-2017 at 12:23 PM.
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