Regarding no DRK adjustments in 4.1

[Krovoc-The-Destroyer]

As MT my DPS is minimal already. Lossing a GCD of damage is not a big deal. Especially if it means that's a GCD that the healer has free to DPS instead. I'd ratehr pass the GCD on to the healer who has a larger view of what's going on. The her decide to what to use it on. Ditto for the MP.

[Chrono_Rising]

As MT my DPS is minimal already. Lossing a GCD of damage is not a big deal. Especially if it means that's a GCD that the healer has free to DPS instead. I'd ratehr pass the GCD on to the healer who has a larger view of what's going on. The her decide to what to use it on. Ditto for the MP.

So it works really well for you, and I don't think anyone is advocating for a change when using this as personal mitigation in grit, since when playing defensively TBN rewards defense with offense. The weird thing is that when you play offensively, then TBN rewards your mitigation with a dps loss. Its the exact opposite of what you would think.

But there is more than one play style when tanking, playing from a more defensive and less offensive stand point, and there are people who play tank in a very aggressive style even when main tanking. For the aggressive players TBN works against us, no matter how little, exactly when we would want it the most.

Dark does need some adjustments beyond tbn, this just tends to be a very stick point for people though.

[Capn_Goggles]

We do not know for sure whether or not Dark Knight is going to see adjustments in 4.1, as we don't have all of the information about the upcoming adjustments. Hopefully this is the case, because it's probably the job most in need of changes right now in my opinion. There's no sense getting preemptively angry at patch notes when we don't even know their contents yet.

For the aggressive players TBN works against us, no matter how little, exactly when we would want it the most.

As I recall, TBN is no longer a DPS loss, but a very *VERY* minute DPS gain. Personally, and I'm sure I'm in the minority here, I think TBN is awful. DRK pretty much revolves around a mitigation ability that's essentially just a clunkier Inner Beast or Sheltron that costs more resources. From a defensive standpoint, DRK has a lopsided kit that leans too heavily on a burst-centric cooldown to handle the fluff damage they take in fights; for the more offensively focused player, you have to gamble 1/4th of your MP on the hope that you'll catch two autoattacks and break TBN every 15 seconds for what amounts to an absolutely minimal gain in DPS.

[Chrono_Rising]

Hard to quote using a phone. It depends on where you come down on the 10 blood gained from soul eater. In fights with lots of phases it probably isn’t as important. In fights with no phases it probably is.

This doesn’t account for the extreme of buff windows and such, but you get the idea.

[Erin_Singh]

As I recall, TBN is no longer a DPS loss, but a very *VERY* minute DPS gain. Personally, and I'm sure I'm in the minority here, I think TBN is awful.

At one point it was, bloodspiller received a 20 potency buff which made it a gain with TBN. However, this change was canceled with another 20 potency buff to souleater a few weeks later. Now, using bloodspiller with blood from Tbn is equal to 6 potency loss.

[Capn_Goggles]

At one point it was, bloodspiller received a 20 potency buff which made it a gain with TBN. However, this change was canceled with another 20 potency buff to souleater a few weeks later. Now, using bloodspiller with blood from Tbn is equal to 6 potency loss.

Oh, good to know. I'm out of date on this stuff since I mostly just play Warrior. I feel like a decent part of this problem can be alleviated by something like giving bloodspiller MP drain and buffing the duration on TBN by a second or two. Of course, more than this I'd like to see a damn change that makes DRK into something other than a 1-2-3 bot, but that's more personal preference than mechanically relevant.

[Cabalabob]

Preliminary patch notes are up and still no DRK adjustments, I seriously doubt they're saving them as a big last minute reveal so I'd say it's safe to assume no DRK adjustments in 4.1.

Absolutely baffling, DRK offers nothing the other tanks don't have, it's now the only tank with no party wide mitigation and all of its cooldowns are weaker than the other tanks equivalents while also having less cooldowns than them.

[Capn_Goggles]

Wow, well now I'm just eating my words. By all means, feel free to get mad now because this is pretty dumb.

[Tegernako]

Preliminary patch notes are up and still no DRK adjustments, I seriously doubt they're saving them as a big last minute reveal so I'd say it's safe to assume no DRK adjustments in 4.1.

Absolutely baffling, DRK offers nothing the other tanks don't have, it's now the only tank with no party wide mitigation and all of its cooldowns are weaker than the other tanks equivalents while also having less cooldowns than them.

B.A.L.A.N.C.E.D.

[Aana]

TBN is a 3 potency gain immediately. Delaying the 10 blood on SE brings that from a +3 gain to a -6 loss. ie: Every 3 TBN you do could have been 1 SE combo and get 10 blood. But you don't actually GET that damage until you have piled up enough blood from SE to get another Spiller. If you don't end the fight with zero blood then its actually a DPS gain. Theres a buncha nuance on what GCD you end a phase or the fight on and if if that TBN spiller would have been better or worse etc, but its essentially a side grade.

Example: You end a fight with 40 blood and did 3 TBN. Well you just lost 6 pot each (18) because you could have not used TBN 3x and done a SE combo had 50 instead of 40 blood and done 1 BS. However if you ended with say 20 blood, TBN 3x would have gained you 9 potency.

Its really more practical to think of it as a net 0 DPS gain outside of grit. The miniscule potency loss is highly situational and only guaranteed to be true in theoretical near infinite terms.

If you can pop the shield, then use it. The end. Stop not handing out free shields because you think your parse will suffer. It wont. It can even GAIN you dps much of the time, and if you don't, its about 1/4 of 1% loss (infinitesimal) if you used it on CD every 15 sec forever AND ended the fight with zero blood. Just use the damn thing.

Really tired of every single drk refusing to use a free shield because they 'think' it hurts them.