Using AST's Expand in Light Party Duties

[Sylvain]

Unless one does is clearly more compétant than

[SleepyNeko]

Snop

Might be wishful but I'm talking about the duration of the whole fight, on average, in the duration of the whole fight, tank/healer can do around 50% to 66% damage of what a dps can do so even if there is movement and healing, it is still that same percentage.

I don't think you can straight compare putting 1 spear on a dps vs a tank, because we are talking about expand which is 1 vs 4. My number are very general because we are talking about 4 man content.

Also I'm strictly talking about expand on spear/arrow/balance only, not bole/ewer/spire (already assuming that I'm RR all the ewer and spire so very low chance to Expand those two). And if we are talking about down time on dps (due to mechanics) then that is the same regardless of what card you use.

Just my personal opinion that there is no need to min/max on a simple 4 man dungeon to the point where you have to drop 2/6 cards (3/6 if you include bole).

[Ametrine]

This is an example of why I have never been able to fully invest myself into AST. I can't use parsers even if I wanted to since I play on console, and guessing who's hitting harder is sketchy, so I got into the habit of alternating who I feed cards to or to spread them if I have the option. Sometimes I hardly mess with them at all and just push my own DPS.

I didn't want to start drama or pick favorites. Plus, I could never gauge which was better; feed cards to the superior player, putting more pressure on them while leaving the other in the dust OR putting emphasis on the less powerful player to even the field and allow both to deal good damage.

Alternating and spreading just feels better. :/ .... But this is why I'm shelving AST as soon as my anima is done.
Shoot, the only reason AST is 70 is the Geomancer in the storyline. Give THAT job to me SE, I beg of you!

[Arrius]

Just my personal opinion that there is no need to min/max on a simple 4 man dungeon to the point where you have to drop 2/6 cards (3/6 if you include bole).

Why do you want to drop Bole? Slap it on a tank and be done with it - Or boost the card you got in your Spread.
Though, you also seem to be not liking burning Spear either and only resort to using Expand on everything, which in my opinon equals the laziness I see on White Mages spamming Medica II : Less hazzle, more netflix.

I didn't want to start drama or pick favorites. Plus, I could never gauge which was better; feed cards to the superior player, putting more pressure on them while leaving the other in the dust OR putting emphasis on the less powerful player to even the field and allow both to deal good damage.

You reward better performing players with the cards - There is no pressure on them if you do - I wager it will be quite the opposite, and they really to get to shred through the trash better, giving you faster clear times.
I never heard of drama about cards, nor did I ever witnessed it on my own so I assume that's just anxiety coming from yourself.

[Cynfael]

I’m in favor of allocating cards as it makes sense to do so. Dungeon trash pulls with a BLM? They get buffed first, assuming they’re doing what they should be doing. Balance is ready, and the choice is between SAM and BRD? SAM is getting it unless the BRD outgears/outskills them drastically, which you can get a feel for by observation.

[SleepyNeko]

Bole, lazy white mages

I don't get this whole laziness angle you are coming from. I already said bole is optional to drop because it is situational and enhance is also not as good as extend nor expand (but it is better than just undraw if you either have no RR or have a lord) I'm just speaking in general terms when it comes to DF 4 man dungeons and most likely pugs. It is possible to find better uses for extend or enhance if you have a well coordinated team but this thread isn't about that. You can call it laziness but I think it is more beneficial to use expand on pug 4 mans if you are not running a parser, especially how in some dungeons with big pulls the tank can out dps the dps.


Also what you said about WHM isn't directly about laziness either, if a WHM just spams Medica 2 BUT does NOT pull aggro and still does their share of dps while keeping their mp in check and everybody topped up will you still call them lazy? I'm using this as an example because your main point is using expand is worse than extend and it is just not true in my DF experience. I'm not in favor of burning spear because I'll just either use it or store it, I think extending a buff increases the chance of it going to waste due to periodic mechanics that forces a stop in dps.

[Silver-Strider]

The easy answer for Balance targets is to get a crystal ball. I've had complaints when I gave the DPS cards to the tank before. They shut up when I told them said tank was at the top of the charts.

So much truth to this statement it hurts.
Love getting complaints by DPS that say I shouldn't give the Tank the DPS cards but once they see the numbers, they're quick to shut up.

[Arrius]

I don't get this whole laziness angle you are coming from. I already said bole is optional to drop because it is situational [...].

Why is Bole optional to drop, when you just can play it out on the tank at any given time? It's a 20% damage reduction - A free rampart for them.
Less damage on the tank means less healing needed, less healing means more breathing room for other things to do. Like doing damage, for example.

My topic wasn't about expand vs extend - I mere commented that many astrologians I ran across as I level up all my combat jobs simply use expand on every card they get and I do not believe that's the best way to get the most out their cards.
And cards will go to waste, mind you. They often will, even without the use of extend. That, also, is something Astrologians need to think about as well when they choose to play their buffs.

When you got a boss fight going, then there is nothing to hold you back burning Spear and apply Time Dilation and Celestial Opposition on a single target for maximum effect.

[SleepyNeko]

Why is Bole optional to drop, when you just can play it out on the tank at any given time? It's a 20% damage reduction - A free rampart for them.
...

Yeah I agree that since it is RNG you can't always get optimal cards so some cards will go to waste. My main point is, using expand does not equal to bad in 4 man dungeon, that is all. Since bad or good is relative, then it becomes a Expand vs Extend vs Enhance discussion where enhance is very very situational and you only get it by burning Bole (hope not burning that balance), hence I talked about Expand vs Extend.

I'm talking about dropping Bole usually because of my personal playstyle, since I always have expand queued I will hardly have a chance to use a Bole. My personal preference in 4 man is to RR all Ewer and Spire, if I already have expand I'll use redraw, if its still ewer/spire then its minor arcana. When I tank I never find the need for the extra mitigation from Bole since it is not a reliable mitigation to have and the cost of keeping a bole around will just make the dungeon take longer to complete.

Obviously this is just my personal playstyle and I don't force it on anyone, but if someone tells me that it is a bad playstyle I'll need to see some evidence on why.

[Jim_Berry]

There really is a lot of truth in this statement. Giving a Balance to a DPS that is performing the lowest out of the 2 or 4 other DPS is just a waste. Never forget the AST that kept feeding Balances to the DRG in a v1s PUG group I did one week... when I was top DPS on BRD... and the DRG was true to his DRG name and died 3 times... But hey! Have a Ewer, my BRD friend! (May still be just a little salty about that still lol.). If you're going to single-target a Balance, you need to give it to the top DPS in a group. Anyone else is just a waste (especially if it's Extended/Enhanced!!!).

But, how can you tell who's top if you're on console?