Tanks Letting DPS Die

[Karshan]

Where did I imply the contrary?

You did not (not directly), it's just some people swarmed as if it was a rant topic about tanks losing hate. In which case I agree dds are not held responsible enough while hate tools exist.
But OP is not complaining about a tank losing hate, he is complaining about tanks who, when it happens, just do nothing to save the poor guy.

I heal as well so I know healing both the tank and the dd can be tricky, so here the thing to do is voke. And sometimes when I have a mob on me (don't blame the tank, with AOE it happens) I run to the tank and I'll be damned, he lets him on me until it dies (Or until I do). Fortunately I have a bursting class so when it happens I go burst mode, but I could have used that burst on the pack (or could I not ? Might have gained hate from more).

[Venoshock]

But OP is not complaining about a tank losing hate, he is complaining about tanks who, when it happens, just do nothing to save the poor guy.

The OP is complaining about tanks who lose hate to a DPS, because the DPS didin't use their cooldowns. That's the dps's fault. It's up to the tank whther they want to voke back, or let the DPS get what they deserve (Personally I'd chose the latter and then laugh). The DPS can't complain, which is what the OP is doing here. I'm not being considerate to some brainless DPS if they didn't consider me when it literally takes no effort. It's an oGCD ffs. Like....why aren't they using it? maybe I should pull big and not use any CDs, die then come to the forums and bitch that the healers are letting me die whilst being totally unaware of how stupid I'd look.

[Karshan]

In his initial post (didn't bother if he posted anything in the other pages) he says the tank call for "diversion" but he doesn't say he didn't use it. He just says :
Tank pull boss (btw I only notice now he was talking about boss, not mobs)
Tank loses hate
DPS gets hit
Tank remains in DPS stance and makes apparently no voke or so
DPS dies.

My reaction as a DPS would simply be to :
- be careful if I start with a burst, can happen in dungeon, happens less in raid
- If enmity gained, try and stop attacking for a while just to let him gain enmity back, and pray the healer sees right away I'm the one getting hit for now
Tank has nothing to apologize for, but if his reaction simply is autotrad "diversion" (I used it) while in DPS stance doing RA like combos, boy I'm not gonna go easy on him and remind him, by my playstyle, he might need his tank stance, maybe only 10 seconds for the pull

[EaMett]

As a general rule, pulling aggro off a tank is *always* the DPS' fault, never the tank's (no matter how much he/she sucks). As a dps you're the only person who can control your enmity. If you're close to getting aggro and used all your enmity cooldowns, then stop dpsing.
The flip side of this is that the tank is absolutely at fault for capping the group dps and should readjust their play accordingly.

The one exception here is if you're a healer doing no overhealing, used enmity control and are still grabbing aggro. Then that's on the tank.

[ShadowYomi]

If the tank did that after using lucid and diversion they would have no right to complain if everything dies slowly afterwards.

[Avatre]

As a general rule, pulling aggro off a tank is *always* the DPS' fault, never the tank's (no matter how much he/she sucks). As a dps you're the only person who can control your enmity. If you're close to getting aggro and used all your enmity cooldowns, then stop dpsing.
The flip side of this is that the tank is absolutely at fault for capping the group dps and should readjust their play accordingly.

I will strongly disagree with all the underlined sections. As a DPS, yes, I need to watch my agro generation, and appropriately use my Diversion/Lucid Dreaming/etc, BUT, it is also on the tank to be aware of what everyone's agro meter is at so that they can use their agro combo if needed, even in DPS stance. I keep a constant eye on that when I tank, so that my DPS do NOT have to stop DPSing, and can continue to bust out their entire combo as quickly as they can. I have rarely lost agro, even from the initial burst on a boss.

[EaMett]

I will strongly disagree with all the underlined sections. As a DPS, yes, I need to watch my agro generation, and appropriately use my Diversion/Lucid Dreaming/etc, BUT, it is also on the tank to be aware of what everyone's agro meter is at so that they can use their agro combo if needed, even in DPS stance. I keep a constant eye on that when I tank, so that my DPS do NOT have to stop DPSing, and can continue to bust out their entire combo as quickly as they can. I have rarely lost agro, even from the initial burst on a boss.

I don't see how that's a rebuttal of what I said. You're essentially saying that as a tank you do your best not to cap the group DPS because of enmity issues. We're agreeing.

[Wintersandman]

If I notice a dps is pulling aggro or if someone runs off to pull more i just follow/aggro what they pull. Theres no reason to be a dick and just let them die, be a team player and pick it up.

It's a dick move to pull for the tank in the first place be a team member and follow the tanks lead.

[Karshan]

As a general rule, pulling aggro off a tank is *always* the DPS' fault, never the tank's (no matter how much he/she sucks). As a dps you're the only person who can control your enmity. If you're close to getting aggro and used all your enmity cooldowns, then stop dpsing.
The flip side of this is that the tank is absolutely at fault for capping the group dps and should readjust their play accordingly.

The one exception here is if you're a healer doing no overhealing, used enmity control and are still grabbing aggro. Then that's on the tank.

Pulling in DPS stance = not doing everything in his power to keep enmity, so If I did (lucid + diversion) sorry but it's on him. I have a job to do and a rotation to maintain, the jobs are designed to be ok if things are done correctly. He wanna go permanent DPS stance ? Fine by me, might he be well stuffed and/or well skilled, otherwise refrain.

[Karshan]

It's a dick move to pull for the tank in the first place be a team member and follow the tanks lead.

That however, I agree with. Clearly the DPS/heal is at fault here, the tank knows his limits, they don't, so they are NOT in charge of pulling.
They just should be able to start their rotation right away once the pack / boss is settled.