Is the vote kick system improperly implemented for how it's actually being used?

[Yeol]

If they don't allow kicks for different play styles I don't think you realize what would happen....you would get punished for removing any player even if one single player was forcing their play style on 3 others who didn't want it.

Forcing people to do something that they don't want to is a kind of harassment. They are not abusing anything in this situation.

In your example, if they ask the tank nicely but he keeps on ignoring them and kept forcing his style. Just kick him for harassment.

In the end, you want people to be more cooperative rather than selfish. This is one of the ways to make sure that players adjust to their party needs.

[Ayer2015]

Do you have any suggestions on how they would fix it though?

Because they are going to get reports from people who got kicked because they refused to compromise to the majority.

If one person wants to RP /walk through the dungeon and stop every few mins taking screenshots of things and the 3 others don't and they kick the person walking then....they should get punished for kicking for differing play styles?

What about a tank who is trying to speed run and the 3 others don't want to? If they kick the tank for differing play styles.... do they get punished for kicking him?

The thing is.... a person is queuing to play with random people. Sometimes you just have to deal with progress not being to your liking. The reality is, you can queue with your friends or a PF group to avoid play styles you don't like.

[Zojha]

Forcing people to do something that they don't want to is a kind of harassment.

But that then means you'd be harassing the tank by forcing him to do smaller pulls (which he doesn't want) and then you'd kick him if he doesn't comply to your harassment.

Wow. You've literally justified mobbing there. Gee, you should really think that through again. Playstyle differences aren't harassment.

[Rokke]

They can't kick the tank because it would be a differing play styles issue so if they do they'll all get punished for abusing the system. What now? Vote abandon and force everyone to requeue and wait even longer due to one person who didn't want to compromise in group content? Doesn't seem fair.

The funniest part about the all or nothing vote is that could lead to more vote abandons or healers/tanks "disconnecting", which would make dps queues even worse lol

The thing is.... a person is queuing to play with random people. Sometimes you just have to deal with progress not being to your liking. The reality is, you can queue with your friends or a PF group to avoid play styles you don't like.

If 1 person wants to only hit blizzard thats their prerogative. If the party isnt on board with that and doesn't want them there, starting a vote is theirs.The party shouldn't be punished and HAVE to carry dead weight. If they are ok with it, then they can drag them along. If they aren't, they can hope the next person queue spits up is better.

[Miste]

Forcing people to do something that they don't want to is a kind of harassment. They are not doing abusing anything in this situation.
In your example, if they ask the tank nicely but he keeps on ignoring them and doing his thing. Just kick him for harassment.

Uh...you might want to think a bit about what you just said.

If forcing someone to do something they don't want to is harassment then the tank in my example could claim the other 3 are harassing him that they are trying to get him to change his playstyle.

So under your definition of harassment being "forcing people to do something they don't want to" then both sides are harassing each other....then both sides are guilty in this case.

It would be hypocritical to claim harassment on one side while the other is harassing as well.

Also I very much disagree that just playing a video game how you personally want to is harassment. Like...harassment is a pretty strong negative word, just because a DPS for example is playing very poorly and I don't like how he is playing I am not gonna claim they are harassing me just for playing how they want. That would be ridiculous.

Or an option "Uncooperative" can be added.

This is the same as now. Any and all play style differences will just use "Uncooperative".

This changes nothing at all.


You have to look at the big picture of the reason why SE allows "different playstyle" kicks. It is because they cannot be biased and tell the community what is "acceptable" play styles and what isn't.

We as a community have to deal with our own disputes when the dispute is entirely centered on play style because SE cannot take sides.

The thing is.... a person is queuing to play with random people. Sometimes you just have to deal with progress not being to your liking. The reality is, you can queue with your friends or a PF group to avoid play styles you don't like.

This argument just defeats itself, because you are forgetting that people who don't want to be kicked for possible play style clash also have the option to only queue with friends or join/make a PF group to avoid people kicking them for their play style.

So what point were you making exactly?

You didn't answer my question to you either so I'll ask again. How do you propose they fix the vote kick system in a logical and fair way?

[Yeol]

But that then means you'd be harassing the tank by forcing him to do smaller pulls (which he doesn't want) and then you'd kick him if he doesn't comply to your harassment.

Wow. You've literally justified mobbing there. Gee, you should really think that through again. Playstyle differences aren't harassment.

Yes, you are correct, playstyle difference is not harassment. It is FORCING others to play your way that is bad here.

Always go with group vote. If tank wanted to do a large pull but everyone else said no, why would he still do it?
It will be a waste of time followed by wipes if the healer wasn't able to keep him up. And in the end, eventually, the party will kick him because he forced his way.

Tank in this situation needs to use his mind. He is not a victim of the healer and dps. It is part of his role to do what is best for the party. And the party said exactly what they needed of him. What did he do? Ignored them.

If you remember that tank complaining on the forums that he kept getting kicked from multiple DF groups, and it turned out because he never listened to his healers?
And what did people tell him? Fix your attitude and do what is best for your party.

Now, I will pass kicking for different playstyle but my point is that it gets abused a lot. Which is the complaint here.
If it is an issue, simply replace it with something else or fix it.

[Miste]

If it is an issue, simply replace it with something else or fix it.

Yeah a few of you keep saying this, but like I said: How?

Any suggestions on what they could change to make the system more fair than now? Because I cannot personally think of a way to fix it to be more fair than it is now and I've thought about it a lot and SE has a whole staff that can brain storm this....if there was a more fair way to design the system don't you think they would have done it after 4 years?

[Yeol]

Yeah a few of you keep saying this, but like I said: How?

At the moment all I can think of is removing that option completely.

This will leave the player with 4 options.

1 - Leave duty and take the penalty.
2 - Be more comparative with the party.
3 - Sit/Stand and do nothing.
4 - Fake DC.

No.3 They can kick him with AFK option.
No.4 They can kick him with the offline option.

At least this prevents people from abusing the system and kicking players that did absolutely nothing wrong.

Though like I said before, I have never seen anyone abusing it personally. But this topic keeps coming up on the forums.

[Rokke]

Yeah a few of you keep saying this, but like I said: How?

Any suggestions on what they could change to make the system more fair than now? Because I cannot personally think of a way to fix it to be more fair than it is now and I've thought about it a lot and SE has a whole staff that can brain storm this....if there was a more fair way to design the system don't you think they would have done it after 4 years?

Honestly I think they should just list "difference in playstyle" as an option. If GMs already accept it as a valid reason to kick, might as well add it in.

[Miste]

At the moment all I can think of is removing that option completely.

This will leave the player with 4 options.

1 - Leaving duty and taking the penalty.
2 - Be more comparative with the party.
3 - Sit/Stand and do nothing.
4 - Fake DC.

You see this as more fair? I don't. I see more problems with this especially since #2 you mention....if people cannot kick the person there is no reason to be more cooperative if they don't feel like it. Trolls will likely take advantage of being immune to being kicked from groups. They can play however they want and not get kicked just to troll and end up making the 3 other people in the group waste their game time.

A DPS that just auto attacks, a healer who doesn't heal, a tank who doesn't tank? Can't kick them! I guess you are okay with taking a 30 minute lockout to your personal play time due to someone else trolling or playing so incompetently that you cannot complete the duty even if you tried?? I am not. Also one person trolling makes three other people have to leave and requeue with one of them getting a penalty to boot. Sounds ridiculous.

One person wasting three other player's game time............and nothing you can do about it except "not play the game" by AFKing or fake d/cing or leaving the duty and getting 30 min penalty and not being able to complete what you wanted/needed to complete. Doesn't sound fair or a good idea to me.

Oh, and before you say "it's okay to kick a troll", if the person trolling doesn't openly admit to trolling then under your new rules of not being able to vote kick for "differing play styles" it means if you kick them without knowing you will get punished if he reports you. SE cannot punish the troll without some kind of proof in chat logs that the trolling was intentional.

The way the system is now isn't perfect because it is impossible to make it perfect, but the system now how it is negatively affects the least amount of players. Again majority > minority. Three people is more than one and I asked for a way to make the system "more fair" than it is now. Letting one player cause three others to have to get 30 min lockouts and/or having to requeue and wait in line again is not fair.

Honestly I think they should just list "difference in playstyle" as an option. If GMs already accept it as a valid reason to kick, might as well add it in.

I mean yeah they could I suppose, but I am okay that it isn't there as a visual option in-game personally. I mean I don't want to promote kicking people for that reason, it is just a reason that has to be used sometimes if there is a clash in opinions and people are not willing to compromise when it is necessary.