Additions to Gathering System

[Wolfie]

I believe people are focusing on the examples I gave on how to change things up (ie dangerous areas for unique and rare items), and not my big issue with gathering, which is the copy-paste experience around camps for each range 1-10, 10-20, 20-30, etc.

Could we discuss that system from the "old FFXIV" and what we want changed?

I'm trying to say that the experience gatherers are having now is not fun gameplay. I don't find the fun in playing a gatherer to be 'fighting' with a node. What's fun for me as a gatherer is FINDING the node, getting to it, and the items that I get out of it. Having a system that focuses on that instead of how many nodes I fight with is better.

Increasing the volume of nodes that a gatherer has to hit is not good imo. For example, if I want to gather 100 pieces of copper ore, I have to hit about 50 nodes, which takes about 30 minutes. Running between them is short, boring, and does not demand any skill or knowledge from me.

What if the volume of nodes was toned down? So that if I wanted to gather 100 pieces of copper ore, I would have to hit only 25 nodes, which would take about 30 minutes. However, the run between the nodes is increased in length, but more importantly, I now have to use my brain and my character's skills to find it and to get to it. Sprint, stealth, location/triangulation, jump, monster distraction, temporary stun/disable via pebble toss, whatever.

The minigame itself needs to disappear too, because it really doesn't serve much of a purpose. The item you gather is automatically determined at the end of the first step, when you determine the height of your swing. The minigame is just there to give you some chance to not gather anything, which can be hardcoded (but should not exist regardless. Failure should occur before the character even gets to the node, not when he's already there.). The real challenge should be finding, getting to, and selecting the appropriate swing height of a node, not playing that minigame.

Another thing I find weird is how each node is determined/set. Why can I only chop one tree and not the 5 next to it? Why can I only mine one rocky outcropping and not the 5 identical outcroppings next to it? There's no visual queue besides the blinking white light to denote that a place is a logging or mining point. If anything, gathering spots should have, in addition to the blinking white light, some exposed ore or a healthy/supple trunk and branches, etc.

[EdenArchangel]

I'm trying to say that the experience gatherers are having now is not fun gameplay. I don't find the fun in playing a gatherer to be 'fighting' with a node. What's fun for me as a gatherer is FINDING the node, getting to it, and the items that I get out of it. Having a system that focuses on that instead of how many nodes I fight with is better.

Increasing the volume of nodes that a gatherer has to hit is not good imo. For example, if I want to gather 100 pieces of copper ore, I have to hit about 50 nodes, which takes about 30 minutes. Running between them is short, boring, and does not demand any skill or knowledge from me.

What if the volume of nodes was toned down? So that if I wanted to gather 100 pieces of copper ore, I would have to hit only 25 nodes, which would take about 30 minutes. However, the run between the nodes is increased in length, but more importantly, I now have to use my brain and my character's skills to find it and to get to it. Sprint, stealth, location/triangulation, jump, monster distraction, temporary stun/disable via pebble toss, whatever.

The minigame itself needs to disappear too, because it really doesn't serve much of a purpose. The item you gather is automatically determined at the end of the first step, when you determine the height of your swing. The minigame is just there to give you some chance to not gather anything, which can be hardcoded (but should not exist regardless. Failure should occur before the character even gets to the node, not when he's already there.). The real challenge should be finding, getting to, and selecting the appropriate swing height of a node, not playing that minigame.

Another thing I find weird is how each node is determined/set. Why can I only chop one tree and not the 5 next to it? Why can I only mine one rocky outcropping and not the 5 identical outcroppings next to it? There's no visual queue besides the blinking white light to denote that a place is a logging or mining point. If anything, gathering spots should have, in addition to the blinking white light, some exposed ore or a healthy/supple trunk and branches, etc.

Ah, I agree with all these points. The minigame is pointless.

The idea of exposed ore, obvious trees for gathering, and visual cues of where fish are populated would make much more aesthetic sense. I suppose it would help if I clarified that when I think of the "right" environment for such gathering activity, that includes the area and what you mentioned, the actual deposit/resource within the area.

[Airget]

I'm trying to say that the experience gatherers are having now is not fun gameplay. I don't find the fun in playing a gatherer to be 'fighting' with a node. What's fun for me as a gatherer is FINDING the node, getting to it, and the items that I get out of it. Having a system that focuses on that instead of how many nodes I fight with is better.

Increasing the volume of nodes that a gatherer has to hit is not good imo. For example, if I want to gather 100 pieces of copper ore, I have to hit about 50 nodes, which takes about 30 minutes. Running between them is short, boring, and does not demand any skill or knowledge from me.

What if the volume of nodes was toned down? So that if I wanted to gather 100 pieces of copper ore, I would have to hit only 25 nodes, which would take about 30 minutes. However, the run between the nodes is increased in length, but more importantly, I now have to use my brain and my character's skills to find it and to get to it. Sprint, stealth, location/triangulation, jump, monster distraction, temporary stun/disable via pebble toss, whatever.

The minigame itself needs to disappear too, because it really doesn't serve much of a purpose. The item you gather is automatically determined at the end of the first step, when you determine the height of your swing. The minigame is just there to give you some chance to not gather anything, which can be hardcoded (but should not exist regardless. Failure should occur before the character even gets to the node, not when he's already there.). The real challenge should be finding, getting to, and selecting the appropriate swing height of a node, not playing that minigame.

Another thing I find weird is how each node is determined/set. Why can I only chop one tree and not the 5 next to it? Why can I only mine one rocky outcropping and not the 5 identical outcroppings next to it? There's no visual queue besides the blinking white light to denote that a place is a logging or mining point. If anything, gathering spots should have, in addition to the blinking white light, some exposed ore or a healthy/supple trunk and branches, etc.

Hm everyones opinion is different personally I find gathering to be fun as it is now, I've dove into botanist, mining and some fishing which I find to be the most complex of the three but overall I find it fun. It's more fun when you have an objective behind it rather then just loot to sell, for me it's mining to rank up my craft classes and stock up on materials to me that's fun. While you may say the mini-game is "useless" but you don't consider that the mini-game itself had it's own discovery phase of figuring out where the "favoured" spot for each item was and the game itself made it easier by actually giving you a clue as to how close you were. Without that aspect people would have to hit in the dark of 10 areas and use graphs and numbers to figure out the % of which are is actually the best. But with the current system once you see "right here" then you have found the best location for the item you wish to gather and I'd say you would hit it 75% of the time.

I would honestly welcome changes to the mini-game to add more aspect to it, if you remove it then you pretty much take away the interaction of gathering that DoL is suppose to offer.

On the case of why can you only gather at certain tree, have you read the Botanist class quest or done them yet. They pretty much explain why it's done the way it is. -Spoiler- Pretty much it's about respecting the forest and trees and only taking the dead parts of a tree and what's needed. In a sense you could think of cutting a tree and pretty much knocking off all the weak and weathered parts of a tree to use as materials rather then focusing on the parts that are still living. -Spoiler-

But ya that's just my opinion I find it fun and I don't see it as a drag when I'm aiming to obtain what I want, in all honesty I don't think it should take 30 minutes to obtain 100 copper ore cause then you have to be doing something wrong. As the system stands now though, if you are just a DoL only with no craft I can understand why it may be boring, but if you add in DoH to the mix and level them together you may find it fun pretty much being self-reliant on obtaining the loot you need to level your craft.

[Wolfie]

Hm everyones opinion is different personally I find gathering to be fun as it is now, I've dove into botanist, mining and some fishing which I find to be the most complex of the three but overall I find it fun. It's more fun when you have an objective behind it rather then just loot to sell, for me it's mining to rank up my craft classes and stock up on materials to me that's fun. While you may say the mini-game is "useless" but you don't consider that the mini-game itself had it's own discovery phase of figuring out where the "favoured" spot for each item was and the game itself made it easier by actually giving you a clue as to how close you were. Without that aspect people would have to hit in the dark of 10 areas and use graphs and numbers to figure out the % of which are is actually the best. But with the current system once you see "right here" then you have found the best location for the item you wish to gather and I'd say you would hit it 75% of the time.

I'm not saying I want the discovery part removed. That one is actually fun and requires some research or some figuring out, and it allows you to narrow down what items you are getting from a node.

What's not fun is phase two where you do the whole hot-'n'-cold game where you try to hit the cursor at the appropriate spot. The item that you're tying to get in this phase was already determined in phase one, and
this phase serves only to 1) slow you down/keep you at a node longer, and 2) give you a chance to fail at getting this item. 1 is stupid, and 2 can be implemented in other ways that don't involve a boring minigame. But there should never BE a situation where you fail to gather an item, after you get past phase one.

I would honestly welcome changes to the mini-game to add more aspect to it, if you remove it then you pretty much take away the interaction of gathering that DoL is suppose to offer.

I guess, but I still think that focusing on the journey to the node would provide more fun and flexibility than whatever actions you do on that node.

On the case of why can you only gather at certain tree, have you read the Botanist class quest or done them yet. They pretty much explain why it's done the way it is. -Spoiler- Pretty much it's about respecting the forest and trees and only taking the dead parts of a tree and what's needed. In a sense you could think of cutting a tree and pretty much knocking off all the weak and weathered parts of a tree to use as materials rather then focusing on the parts that are still living. -Spoiler-

That doesn't change what I said. The trees that I'm chopping down should then look old or diseased, but they look identical to the trees next to them. What's the explanation then for me not being able to gather from the trees next to the one I'm chopping now?

A good variation between the three classes could be something like:

Miners: get less nodes, but a lot more resources/gather attempts are given per node
Botanists: get a lot of nodes (can chop from every tree in an area), but are only allowed one to three gather attempts
Fishers: fine as is

But ya that's just my opinion I find it fun and I don't see it as a drag when I'm aiming to obtain what I want, in all honesty I don't think it should take 30 minutes to obtain 100 copper ore cause then you have to be doing something wrong.

It's an example with made up numbers man. You're reading too much into some of the things I say, and completely missing my point on others.

As the system stands now though, if you are just a DoL only with no craft I can understand why it may be boring, but if you add in DoH to the mix and level them together you may find it fun pretty much being self-reliant on obtaining the loot you need to level your craft.

Gathering right now is okay, and this is from someone who hates gathering normally. It's nice that they're their own class and that there's some depth to being a gatherer now (as opposed to none in other MMOs). But they could differentiate them further, give much more depth, and allow for actual skill tests in playing this class as opposed to straight up memorizing where the good nodes/items are.