Additions to Gathering System

[EdenArchangel]

If anyone has not read the recent and lengthy post on the subjects of the future of land/hand classes, housing, new features, etc. I have posted the link below, and after reading, would like to bring up some aspects of the gathering system not mentioned :::

Official Translation by Bayohne



In the future, would any miners, botanists, or fishers like the idea of having new special/rarer nodes found underground in cave systems, in appropriate areas, or simply in dangerous areas with monsters to avoid in order to obtain the precious materials?

The three gathering systems being outside (which I don't understand for mining to begin with), being at the same camps, the same leves, and nothing to diversify them aside from the appearance of the gathering mini-game is not an enjoyable experience.

The idea of continuing this pattern, starting with grade 6 in the next level-range area, around the 50+ camps, doing the grind again fills me with dread.

The system in XI with regards to location was PERFECT. Ifrit's Cauldron for the rarest ores, Mamook for the bloodlogs, and fishing was too diverse with rare fish for me to even exemplify.

The current system is the old XIV-style, and doesn't take into account the coming diversification of regions as well. The locations and environments need to make sense, and evolve from the "half-assed" version that was pushed out from XIV's start.

Mining should be in MINES (quarrying can remain outside), logging is working fine (but could use new aspects like a Boyahda Tree or Sanctuary for special items), and fishing should be more diverse than the grade 1-5 you must fish here formula.

Could we please move away from the camp-based system?


I am truly appreciative of the improvements to come, but want the gathering system to evolve to its true potential ^^




TLDR:
Diversification of the gathering system, nodes in appropriate environments, less copy-paste based around camps formula

**Edit** Bolded main point for emphasis, removed rambling ideas

[EdenArchangel]

*Bump* /10 char

These two quotes hit on the point I was making:::

Yeah I always found it odd that Nanawa MINES and Copperbell MINES, don't have any, you know, actual places to mine stuff.

Even if it were higher chances to gather HQ mats, or non-raw form gemstones, or exclusive one of a kind mats for ridiculous synths, or even just NPC vend option items, Copperbell/Nanawa/O'ghomora mines/Shposae/Darkhold/Toto-rak/Mun-tuy Cellars, all need to see some form of Mining.

Why? It makes sense. I'm sorry, I know. That's a flimsy argument in a fantasy game, let alone a FF game.

Okay, Okay. Fine. Leave those areas alone.

What about Coerthas and Mor Dhona? There's nothing in Coerthas that can't be found elsewhere, safer/easier. (Yes, I'm implying that safer does indeed = easier) Sure, it's grouped up. You can get the "good" stuff in one region, but there's nothing to require me to go there.

SO, what do people want?:
-> Diversification between each class
-> Remove pointless gathering minigame, or replace with something fun that rewards skillful play
-> More dangerous areas possessing the more valuable and rewarding items
-> Visual cues for gathering areas such as exposed ores, healthy trees, visible fish groups



**Edit** Included quotes, started list of what could add depth to gathering

[Wolfie]

Not too sure about dangerous areas, because gatherers have sort of crappy time as is with avoiding aggro.

I would have liked to see jump/platforming/zone exploration as additional challenges for gatherers, instead of more aggro dodging and/or class switching to clear up mobs.

[Wolfie]

To explain a little further, I would like to have to have a combination of figuring out where a node is, platforming action, aggro dodging, and then gathering minigames (and whatever else works, without making gathering a pain in the ass) when I'm playing miner.

As a way to balance the increased travel and difficulty between nodes, they should offer more exp and items; or last longer than 4-5 gathers; or both.

[Physic]

they have no extra tools for monster avoidance, so i wouldnt make that thier thing, unless they design new monsters with a more avoidance heavy style of being dealt with. I would put more gatherer like mechanics and skills in the classes. You could have volatile ore viens for miner, that you have to carefully gather, Somethin for botany that could destroy your mats, maybe dealing with insects, and powerful fish that you have to actually do a more complex battle with to get.

Essentially they should try to keep in in the frames of gathering type of problems, and less in monsters, since monsters is something gatherers are extremely poorly equipped to deal with. And walking slowly is the most annoying thing ever. well maybe not as annoying as dying fast, but ehhh

[Vyncent]

As it stands, there is no experience premium for engaging in high-risk gathering activities.

Caves and nodes exist today that are aggro-management nightmares for gatherers. If you are able to sneak to the node or otherwise dispatch of the risk itself, gathering from that node yields the exact same experience reward as a node next to a camp crystal.

I say sure, go ahead and add "dangerous" nodes for adventurous gatherers, but also implement some sort of premium experience reward to acknowledge the additional risk involved.

[EdenArchangel]

I believe people are focusing on the examples I gave on how to change things up (ie dangerous areas for unique and rare items), and not my big issue with gathering, which is the copy-paste experience around camps for each range 1-10, 10-20, 20-30, etc.

Could we discuss that system from the "old FFXIV" and what we want changed?

[Wolfie]

I believe people are focusing on the examples I gave on how to change things up (ie dangerous areas for unique and rare items), and not my big issue with gathering, which is the copy-paste experience around camps for each range 1-10, 10-20, 20-30, etc.

Could we discuss that system from the "old FFXIV" and what we want changed?

I'm trying to say that the experience gatherers are having now is not fun gameplay. I don't find the fun in playing a gatherer to be 'fighting' with a node. What's fun for me as a gatherer is FINDING the node, getting to it, and the items that I get out of it. Having a system that focuses on that instead of how many nodes I fight with is better.

Increasing the volume of nodes that a gatherer has to hit is not good imo. For example, if I want to gather 100 pieces of copper ore, I have to hit about 50 nodes, which takes about 30 minutes. Running between them is short, boring, and does not demand any skill or knowledge from me.

What if the volume of nodes was toned down? So that if I wanted to gather 100 pieces of copper ore, I would have to hit only 25 nodes, which would take about 30 minutes. However, the run between the nodes is increased in length, but more importantly, I now have to use my brain and my character's skills to find it and to get to it. Sprint, stealth, location/triangulation, jump, monster distraction, temporary stun/disable via pebble toss, whatever.

The minigame itself needs to disappear too, because it really doesn't serve much of a purpose. The item you gather is automatically determined at the end of the first step, when you determine the height of your swing. The minigame is just there to give you some chance to not gather anything, which can be hardcoded (but should not exist regardless. Failure should occur before the character even gets to the node, not when he's already there.). The real challenge should be finding, getting to, and selecting the appropriate swing height of a node, not playing that minigame.

Another thing I find weird is how each node is determined/set. Why can I only chop one tree and not the 5 next to it? Why can I only mine one rocky outcropping and not the 5 identical outcroppings next to it? There's no visual queue besides the blinking white light to denote that a place is a logging or mining point. If anything, gathering spots should have, in addition to the blinking white light, some exposed ore or a healthy/supple trunk and branches, etc.

[EdenArchangel]

I'm trying to say that the experience gatherers are having now is not fun gameplay. I don't find the fun in playing a gatherer to be 'fighting' with a node. What's fun for me as a gatherer is FINDING the node, getting to it, and the items that I get out of it. Having a system that focuses on that instead of how many nodes I fight with is better.

Increasing the volume of nodes that a gatherer has to hit is not good imo. For example, if I want to gather 100 pieces of copper ore, I have to hit about 50 nodes, which takes about 30 minutes. Running between them is short, boring, and does not demand any skill or knowledge from me.

What if the volume of nodes was toned down? So that if I wanted to gather 100 pieces of copper ore, I would have to hit only 25 nodes, which would take about 30 minutes. However, the run between the nodes is increased in length, but more importantly, I now have to use my brain and my character's skills to find it and to get to it. Sprint, stealth, location/triangulation, jump, monster distraction, temporary stun/disable via pebble toss, whatever.

The minigame itself needs to disappear too, because it really doesn't serve much of a purpose. The item you gather is automatically determined at the end of the first step, when you determine the height of your swing. The minigame is just there to give you some chance to not gather anything, which can be hardcoded (but should not exist regardless. Failure should occur before the character even gets to the node, not when he's already there.). The real challenge should be finding, getting to, and selecting the appropriate swing height of a node, not playing that minigame.

Another thing I find weird is how each node is determined/set. Why can I only chop one tree and not the 5 next to it? Why can I only mine one rocky outcropping and not the 5 identical outcroppings next to it? There's no visual queue besides the blinking white light to denote that a place is a logging or mining point. If anything, gathering spots should have, in addition to the blinking white light, some exposed ore or a healthy/supple trunk and branches, etc.

Ah, I agree with all these points. The minigame is pointless.

The idea of exposed ore, obvious trees for gathering, and visual cues of where fish are populated would make much more aesthetic sense. I suppose it would help if I clarified that when I think of the "right" environment for such gathering activity, that includes the area and what you mentioned, the actual deposit/resource within the area.

[Airget]

I'm trying to say that the experience gatherers are having now is not fun gameplay. I don't find the fun in playing a gatherer to be 'fighting' with a node. What's fun for me as a gatherer is FINDING the node, getting to it, and the items that I get out of it. Having a system that focuses on that instead of how many nodes I fight with is better.

Increasing the volume of nodes that a gatherer has to hit is not good imo. For example, if I want to gather 100 pieces of copper ore, I have to hit about 50 nodes, which takes about 30 minutes. Running between them is short, boring, and does not demand any skill or knowledge from me.

What if the volume of nodes was toned down? So that if I wanted to gather 100 pieces of copper ore, I would have to hit only 25 nodes, which would take about 30 minutes. However, the run between the nodes is increased in length, but more importantly, I now have to use my brain and my character's skills to find it and to get to it. Sprint, stealth, location/triangulation, jump, monster distraction, temporary stun/disable via pebble toss, whatever.

The minigame itself needs to disappear too, because it really doesn't serve much of a purpose. The item you gather is automatically determined at the end of the first step, when you determine the height of your swing. The minigame is just there to give you some chance to not gather anything, which can be hardcoded (but should not exist regardless. Failure should occur before the character even gets to the node, not when he's already there.). The real challenge should be finding, getting to, and selecting the appropriate swing height of a node, not playing that minigame.

Another thing I find weird is how each node is determined/set. Why can I only chop one tree and not the 5 next to it? Why can I only mine one rocky outcropping and not the 5 identical outcroppings next to it? There's no visual queue besides the blinking white light to denote that a place is a logging or mining point. If anything, gathering spots should have, in addition to the blinking white light, some exposed ore or a healthy/supple trunk and branches, etc.

Hm everyones opinion is different personally I find gathering to be fun as it is now, I've dove into botanist, mining and some fishing which I find to be the most complex of the three but overall I find it fun. It's more fun when you have an objective behind it rather then just loot to sell, for me it's mining to rank up my craft classes and stock up on materials to me that's fun. While you may say the mini-game is "useless" but you don't consider that the mini-game itself had it's own discovery phase of figuring out where the "favoured" spot for each item was and the game itself made it easier by actually giving you a clue as to how close you were. Without that aspect people would have to hit in the dark of 10 areas and use graphs and numbers to figure out the % of which are is actually the best. But with the current system once you see "right here" then you have found the best location for the item you wish to gather and I'd say you would hit it 75% of the time.

I would honestly welcome changes to the mini-game to add more aspect to it, if you remove it then you pretty much take away the interaction of gathering that DoL is suppose to offer.

On the case of why can you only gather at certain tree, have you read the Botanist class quest or done them yet. They pretty much explain why it's done the way it is. -Spoiler- Pretty much it's about respecting the forest and trees and only taking the dead parts of a tree and what's needed. In a sense you could think of cutting a tree and pretty much knocking off all the weak and weathered parts of a tree to use as materials rather then focusing on the parts that are still living. -Spoiler-

But ya that's just my opinion I find it fun and I don't see it as a drag when I'm aiming to obtain what I want, in all honesty I don't think it should take 30 minutes to obtain 100 copper ore cause then you have to be doing something wrong. As the system stands now though, if you are just a DoL only with no craft I can understand why it may be boring, but if you add in DoH to the mix and level them together you may find it fun pretty much being self-reliant on obtaining the loot you need to level your craft.