Can Red Mage aoe be less boring?

[dinnertime]

To be fair, SCH gained a far better replacement in Miasma 2 version 2, but SMN could use some AoE love. Wanna talk about a gimped and boring job for AoE? Look at poor, poor SMN, who lost much of their teeth in AoE.

I'm still upset to be honest. AoE as a SMN doesn't feel as satisfying anymore because of nerfs and the loss of 2 AoEs. I know SMN actually has a lot compared to others but it's very limited compared to what a BLM or a RDM can do.

[EllieShadeflare]

I'm still upset to be honest. AoE as a SMN doesn't feel as satisfying anymore because of nerfs and the loss of 2 AoEs. I know SMN actually has a lot compared to others but it's very limited compared to what a BLM or a RDM can do.

They'll at least fix Bane, since everyone hates it in its current form. They may even buff Tri-Bind into something... not garbage. We'll see.

[Ilan]

That kinda misses the whole point. I want Red Mage aoe not to be sleep inducing. Kinda the whole point of this was to show how little Aoe Red Mage has, and make it more enjoyable then mindless scatter spam, while I wait a minute to use the only other aoes it has.

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But you also miss the point that really every other class is on the same level of boredom in aoe situations. Every class is basicaly spamming one skill and waiting for the other 1-2 to be ready again, doesn't matter if you have to fill up gages or just normal cd. Its all boring as hell.

[Laerune]

I think it fits Red Mage alot, Red Mage as a class is simple (boring to some), while other classes like Black Mage and Summoner are less simple, because you can be punished for making a mistake.

[Ariomi]

Said guaranteed proc is once every minute... and still is part of the GCD, where as Contre Sexte can be linked after a spell.

Sharpcast works just like acceleration. You just pop it and you get a proc next cast. Making it great aoe. After you cast it, next thunder 4 is instant and costs no Mana.

Also... Scatter best dps out of the Gcds? It's 100 potency... Deathblossom 110. Doomspike 130, sonic thrust? 170 Quick Nock? 110 Fire 2 145 potency ish with astral fire. It's nowhere near the best. 200 potency in 2 gcds. It's nothing to right home about when most classes do more.

[Waliel]

Scatter spam almost made me want to quit leveling RDM. Probably would have if not for the goddess title.

Legit haven't seen Blizzard 2 used since it was a cross skill and I had it on SMN.

Eh, you can use it in Copperbell during Transpose CD or something, if you get a tank who pulls more than one pack. Gone are the glory days B2 + Flare rotation.

Said guaranteed proc is once every minute... and still is part of the GCD, where as Contre Sexte can be linked after a spell.

It also does more damage than Scatter + Contre combined with full ticks and a lot more satisfying to use in my opinion.

Also, Fire II becomes utterly useless once you get the enhanced Umbral Hearts since there's no reason to NOT just turn Doubleflare into your whole AoE Fire rotation with a few Thunder IVs here and there.

PPS wise, Fire 2 is worth it at 6+ enemies and you drop Blizzard 4 completely at 9+ provided that Triple isn't up.

Also... Scatter best dps out of the Gcds? It's 100 potency... Deathblossom 110. Doomspike 130, sonic thrust? 170 Quick Nock? 110 Fire 2 145 potency ish with astral fire. It's nowhere near the best. 200 potency in 2 gcds. It's nothing to right home about when most classes do more.

Scatter has the second lowest PPS of all your everyday AoE skills ahead of only MCH when they don't have bullets. I guess there's Tri-Bind and such, but yeah.

[Kabooa]

Mage weapons are about 30% stronger than PDPS weapons. The potency might be 100, but it still puts it ahead of almost every PDPS ability in that light, while maintaining no issues with TP, generally having a friendlier targeting system (AOE compared to lines, or PBAOE), and building up to an actual AOE finisher (Moulinet).

[AiharaMizuki]

I want something to Supplement Red Mage's aoe. Not necessarily make it stonger, But definitely make it more interesting.

Yet this discussion has gone to comparing the potency of RDM's AoE to other classes. Every other class is in the same boat minus BLM, SMN, SAM and NIN. It'll be 1-2 GCD skills whilst weaving in OGCDs, even if the OGCDs are single target. Then back to the same GCD skill spams until the other skills are off cooldown. Manafication, Acceleration, Embolden, Impact, Fleche, Contre Sixte, Corps-a-corps, Displacement, Scatter, Enchanted Moulinet. Even BLM uses roughly the same amount of skills, just the fact that they're designed to be the AoE king for caster dps doesn't make RDM's AoE "boring".

Also as many others have pointed out, Bards have less AoE skills than RDM.
Dragoons rarely ever get to a point where they can use Nastrond during AoE pulls unless the other DPS is just standing to the side looking pretty.
Monks wont use Perfect Balance if the pull is right before the boss, Arm of Destroyer is too TP hungry.
MCH's have Spreadshot while the others are ogcds with long cooldown (Ricochet is 100 less potency and 15s longer cooldown compared to Contre, Flamethrower is 1 minute, Hypercharge is 2 minutes, Bishop Overdrive is 2 minutes).
And these classes can and will run out of TP if it takes a long time to aoe the mobs down. TP song isn't always available, Goad is only available if there's a melee dps and that's if they bring goad and actually uses it, Invigorate isnt always useful when the cooldown is 120s.

Stop comparing RDM to BLM. Yea BLM has more AoE that deals more damage. But they don't get Dualcast + Veraise or Vercure for when shit hits the fan. They don't get Embolden to juice up party member's DPS. They don't get the mobility of RDM. They have nothing in their native skill tree that actually helps anyone else in any way while everyone else has at least some utility they bring (yes, even Monk).

[Ariomi]

Yet this discussion has gone to comparing the potency of RDM's AoE to other classes.

The reason for that, is that Red Mage's aoe is deficient in general. Not only in how moves are Aoe, But in the potency of them as well. They are lacking in every regard.

I'll refer you to this comment.

Scatter spam almost made me want to quit leveling RDM. Probably would have if not for the goddess title.

Scatter has the second lowest PPS of all your everyday AoE skills ahead of only MCH when they don't have bullets. I guess there's Tri-Bind and such, but yeah.

And most of your points about all classes having boring Aoe is mute.
Samurai, Ninja, Blm, Smn, all have great Aoe. Dragoon Machinist and Monk have decent Aoe (4 moves+ each). It's a fact that most Dps roles have more and stronger Aoe. And that's more Aoe, while each class still have their specific OGcds.
The only class that's even in the same Area is bard. (Which is Ironic considering Bard Aoe used be to really good. R.I.P. Fire Arrow and Wide Volley). So in this regard, 7 out of the 8 other dps classes without a shadow of a doubt have Stronger, More interesting Aoe.

If Red Mage Aoe was strong, It would be different, It was interesting, it would be different.
Red Mage's whole Shtick is switching between White and Black Magic, and yet... While there are two versions of most spells, There's only scatter.