Can Red Mage aoe be less boring?

[Kabooa]

Simple class has simple aoe.

:O

Honestly i hate setuppy aoe rotations, because mobs seldom live long enough for the setup to pay off.

That's why you set up while the tank is setting up.

[Ilan]

Not quite. A few classes have fun aoe.

Mudra's on 18 sec cooldown, with death blossom weapon skill, Ten Chi Jin and Kassastu also can be used as Aoe with hell frog medium.

I just want Red mage aoe to be slightly more then two buttons? A blm using fire 2 and flare at level 50 is more interesting as you actually have to do stuff. Then you get Thunder 4, foul, and umbral hearts when you hit 70. Meaning you can flare multiple times, thunder 4 or you can focus on foul.

Some classes aoe is boring, and every class that has boring aoe should be made fun in my opinion. It's just that Red Mage has the most sleep inducing Aoe. I will never play red mage at anything under level 70 because I don't want to just spam scatter through level 50 dungeons.

Scatter and Moulinet... pretty boring after awhile, and my sole complaint about red mage.

Dude aoe situations with NIN are freaking boring because you spam death blossom, use mudras, spam death blossom, use frog, spam death blossom...aaaaaaand so on.

It is boring as hell just like on every other class too

As NIN you have 3 things for aoe. One of it are mudras, where you mostly use Katon since tanks move the mobs out of doton anyway, you have the frog what takes a while to build up and you have death blossom what still drains your tp like crazy. On the other hand you have the RDM who builds up Moulinett and waits for the other cd during scatter spam. Its not really different besides that you as a RDM don't run out of mana at all...

[Ariomi]

Dude aoe situations with NIN are freaking boring because you spam death blossom, use mudras, spam death blossom, use frog, spam death blossom...aaaaaaand so on.

On the other hand you have the RDM who builds up Moulinett and waits for the other cd during scatter spam.

You kinda killed your own argument.
Red Mage IS MORE BORING THEN NINJA WHO SPAMS SCATTER AND WAITS FOR THE OTHER CD And builds up Moulinet.
Red Mage Spam Scatter, Spam Scatter, Spam scatter, Spam Scatter, Spam Scatter, Man, I would Love to use contre, but it's still on cd. Guess It's time to spam scatter. How's gauge looking? 38/38? Welp, there's 5 adds here. Guess I better spam Scatter.

So, Ninja has Mudras, Hellfrog, and Deathblossom and that's boring compared to Scatter spam while I WAIT for meter to build and a 45 second Cd? Dude, If you think Ninja is boring, You would have a seizure from how dull Red Mage aoe is.

if Kassastu, Ten Chi Jin, Hellfrog medium, Deathblossom, and Mudras are boring, How boring do you think Ninja would be if they had half of that?

Red mage has Enchanted Moulinet which is the equivalent of Hellfrog (Building up meter for an aoe)
Scatter is the same as Deathblossom, and Contre Sixte is the equivalent of half of a Ninja's mudras. 45 second cooldown. That's longer then two mudras. Tell me what's more boring? Two mudras over 40 seconds, that lets you pick which aoe you want, (Let's say you choose Katon 2x)
or Contre Sixte. 250 Potency Katon every 20 seconds, (500 potency total in that time) or Contre Sixte 300 every 45.

So next time you play Ninja, Pretend you are a red mage. Just spam deathblossom, wait 45 seconds per Mudra, and only use Hellfrog Medium. If you find that you aren't waiting enough, Don't use mug to build gauge.

[Ilan]

You do the same with Ninja. You spam death blossom until other things are ready. What the hell is wrong with you? If you think every other class is more interesting then play them...geez

[EllieShadeflare]

>Be Red Mage.

>Think that 320 potency of AoE oGCD goodness every 45s whilst other classes need to wait longer for slightly lower (Dragoon and their Dragonfire Dive and the fact that they need BotD to get Geirskogul (which itself is on a 35s cooldown) and LotD to get Nastrond (which might take a minute or more) as an example) is "too long".

>Think that Scatter is the only viable AoE on groups of 4+ (clearly Moulinet doesn't exist)

are we sure this isn't bait?

[AiharaMizuki]

Contre Sixte - 300 Potency - 45 Second cooldown. Red Mage's strongest aoe.
Foul - 650 Potency - 30 Second Cooldown. Black Mage's Strongest aoe.

I want something to Supplement Red Mage's aoe. Not necessarily make it stonger, But definitely make it more interesting.

Yet you are comparing the dps difference between two casters where one is designed to deal higher damage but with less utility. Could say RDM's Embolden is also just as strong in AoE pulls.

list of AoE skills for DPS

Geirskogul has long cooldown. Doom Spike and Sonic Thrust are TP-hungry as is the case with all melee aoe gcds. Nostrand takes too much time to build up.
Monk's Howling Fist is 60s cooldown. Bard's AoE is basically just dotting everything and spam Rain of Death from Ballad procs or just non-stop Quick Nock Spam. Mch's Ricochet and Flamethrower is 60s cooldown, Hypercharge and Turret Overdrive is 120s and mostly it's just Spread Shot spam.

My only problem with it, is that it's boring. Go grab a Red Mage, and tell me how exciting it is spamming scatter every 50 dungeon.

Every class is "boring" to AoE dps in lvl 50 dungeons except SAM, SMN and BLM.

The only thing worth mentioning, is while Scatter costs less to cast, it also is one of the weakest potency wise. Dualcast Scatter is 200 potency over the course of two gcds. Deathblossom is 110 potency, Doomspike is 130.

Again, cost to use. Why are we comparing potencies anyway?

[Ariomi]

You do the same with Ninja. You spam death blossom until other things are ready. What the hell is wrong with you? If you think every other class is more interesting then play them...geez

That kinda misses the whole point. I want Red Mage aoe not to be sleep inducing. Kinda the whole point of this was to show how little Aoe Red Mage has, and make it more enjoyable then mindless scatter spam, while I wait a minute to use the only other aoes it has.

>Be Red Mage.

>Think that 320 potency of AoE oGCD goodness every 45s whilst other classes need to wait longer for slightly lower (Dragoon and their Dragonfire Dive and the fact that they need BotD to get Geirskogul (which itself is on a 35s cooldown) and LotD to get Nastrond (which might take a minute or more) as an example) is "too long".

>Think that Scatter is the only viable AoE on groups of 4+ (clearly Moulinet doesn't exist)

I mentioned Moulinet several times, It's the third Aoe Red Mage.
You also conveniently ignore the fact that you can keep up BotD, with Dragoon's Doom Spike then Sonic Thrust Combo. (Sonic Thrust looks amazing). And it does more damage then Scatter spam. Contre is only 300 potency, that has fall off damage the more enemies it hits, and is the last of Red Mage's aoe. They have 2 other moves. Scatter and Moulinet. Dragoon has Doom Spike, Sonic Thrust, Dragonfire Dive, Gierskogul, and Nastrond. The game actively encourages you to use this, as the Sonic Thrust extends Botd. Nastrond is 320 potency with no fall off. 10 Second cooldown time, and 960 Aoe Potency total when you use all three. Kinda significant when that doesn't decrease with all the adds you hit. Red Mage's Contre would take about two and a half minutes to do 900 potency, that drops for every enemy it hits.

While Contre is decently powerful for what it is, Most classes have multiple Ogcds that do more damage.

[Ariomi]

Yet you are comparing the dps difference between two casters where one is designed to deal higher damage but with less utility. Could say RDM's Embolden is also just as strong in AoE pulls.

Every class is "boring" to AoE dps in lvl 50 dungeons except SAM, SMN and BLM.

Again, cost to use. Why are we comparing potencies anyway?

Being tp hungry hardly matters in dungeons, when you will regen all of it back before the next pull. And Tp costs don't matter, as long as Skills such as Invigorate, Goad, Purification exist, Tp song exist.And Cost to use doesn't matter, when Red Mage naturally doesn't use much Mana ever.


When it come's to Blm, It's the biggest example of how boring Red Mage's aoe is.

Fire 2, Blizzard 2, Thunder 4, Thunder 4 Procs, Multiple Flares with Umbral Hearts, Foul, with Enokian, Ley Lines, and Surecast.
This is more about Blm's aoe arsenal in Aoe, with showing how strong it is, to show how deficient Red Mage Aoe is.
Blm is currently at the same Level of Dps of Samurai. Something Red Mage will never have. I would honestly prefer Scatter to be changed to make the next attack an aoe. Atleast then I would have a hotbar's worth of options of Aoe.

Dragoon's Aoe is tp hungry, but like I mentioned in the post before, Doom Thrust, Sonic Thrust combo. Gierskogul, Dragonfire Dive, Nastrond is still more then what Red Mage has. Both in potency and Numbers. I'm partially surprised they didn't keep Ring of thorns and add it into the Gcd Aoe combo. Regardless, Still more then what Red Mage has, with Sonic Thrust lengthening Botd time and giving access to Geirskogul. When you do have access to Nastrond, in total its 960 Aoe potency, with no fall off damage. That's kinda insane.

Even Bard is more interesting, as you have to keep songs up, with Rain of Death being 15 seconds or a proc resetting it. Oh Mana cost a thing? Tp song.

Any class that has more then 3 moves, still outclasses Red Mage. I wouldn't mind Red Mage's Aoe costing more mana, If they actually got some.
Mana costs on Red Mage basically a non issue ever. Something to spend the Mana on, is fine by me.

[Kabooa]

Implying people use Blizzard 2.

What.

[PrismaticDaybreak]

Implying people use Blizzard 2.

What.

Legit haven't seen Blizzard 2 used since it was a cross skill and I had it on SMN.