Why do tanks no use coold downs?

[bswpayton]

its called being bad same with dps who dont aoe

[Miste]

Refused as in didn't, or refused as in actively said they won't do it because they don't want to? One of those is either a newbie or forgetfulness, both of which are things that happen sometimes. The other is... I don't know, because I've never seen that happen.

Sadly I've had a tank actively refuse to use cooldowns. It was a DRK I got in Expert one time in Ala Mhigo. He wasn't fully geared yet (it syncs to i310 but he was wearing some i290 and i300 gear) and wanted to do double/triple pulls and he died multiple times because he used like nothing (except Living Dead, but he died anyway), he was taking so much damage I had to spam Benefic II without missing a single GCD until I ran out of MP so he died anyway.

I asked him later to use cooldowns because you cannot keep double pulling using nothing like that I can't keep you alive. This is after the second time we wipe and nothing was said so far.

His answer was "I don't need to." "The blackest night is enough I don't need anything else if you would just heal me".

Faith in humanity instantly shattered. I don't even think I responded properly because I was so blown away. I think I wrote "lol" I don't even fully remember because it was that bizarre.

[bswpayton]

Sadly I've had a tank actively refuse to use cooldowns. It was a DRK I got in Expert one time in Ala Mhigo. He wasn't fully geared yet (it syncs to i310 but he was wearing some i290 and i300 gear) and wanted to do double/triple pulls and he died multiple times because he used like nothing (except Living Dead, but he died anyway), he was taking so much damage I had to spam Benefic II without missing a single GCD until I ran out of MP so he died anyway.

i literally dont get people at all haha this guy needs their drk job stone banned from thier account

[Taika]

So yes, I play a devils advocate here. Is using the cooldowns "casually" a sign of a good healer/tank?! It may be, if they are used properly, that is. But is not doing that signs of a bad healer/tank?!...Possibly. Not necessarily. How cooldowns are used is based on factors that are out of the healers/tanks control. They need to "adapt". That's why I disagree with you saying that not using cooldowns is sign of a bad healer/tank. Not because it is inherently wrong, but before it is not clear enough. They need to be properly timed. And for that, one needs to KNOW about the dungeon, the party and their own limitations in respect to it. The cooldowns may be short, but they do not necessarily have to be usable in every battle. A mob may take less time to clear, while the cooldown may have been used about halfway into the battle. That means that you won't have it for most of the next battle. Maybe there are these bee's with their Final Sting (which is very much survivable by the way) and the DPS just refuses to kill them fast enough. Happened more than once in my parties. So the cooldown may be used at the end of the battle. Admittedly, there is quite a lot of time after the bees where it wouldn't really be neccessary (except for another Final Sting), but hey. Stuff happens where you may end up having these skills on cooldown for most/all of a battle. And that is with planning ahead.

Final sting isn't something you use a cooldown for, it's something you stun. :P In any case, as we're talking about easy content here (like you said, not even expert dungeons), there's nothing there that you can't clear very well with standard use of cooldowns on each pull (rotating them so you'll have something up for each pull), even on your first run. And as saving them is more likely to get you into trouble than save you, there's no reason to do that. Apart from maybe Benediction, Hallowed ground etc. that you normally use routinely in content you're familiar with. You don't need to "properly time" Sentinel or Tetra, for example. You can and should use them in appropriate situation on the first pull they're up for.

[MoroMurasaki]

Is everyone familiar with the concept of degrees of separation?

It's often used colloquially to describe how 'close' to a celebrity someone is. Like "My aunt's husband used to background dance for Christina Aguilera" would mean you were 2 degrees away from knowing Christina Aguilera. Or I guess one depending on whether or not you know your aunt's husband.

I bring this up because I think any post in the healer forum is at maximum 2 degrees away from being turned into a healer DPS debate. I'd say anything about gameplay on the OF is probably a max of 5 degrees where each degree is one post.

I'm not sure it's really a good thing either. You start to see the same general arguments/angles around every corner. It's mildly upsetting.

My planned response to this discussion stil going on was something like "if a tank wants me to spend time and CDs spamming Cure II on him instead of DPSing that's on him" and then I had to reign myself in because that could have been the catalyst to derail this thread into that same damn direction all over again.

[QT_Melon]

Dungeons are the PERFECT time to learn how to use Cooldowns. What's the point of cooldowns if you don't even use them when they're like a pretty significant part of your skill set to begin with? You want to muscle memory your CD placement because in content where specific ones are relevant it's less button fumbling for the right one. So use them in dungeons.

[technole]

I've leveled all tanks on my main, and its piss easy to use cooldowns on every pull. But apparently even hitting the brick wall icon we call Rampart is extremely difficult for many people, considering it's short CD. Then you got warrior, which is the god of cooldowns. Can even be Deliverance on-pulls and use Thrill and Convo and it's practically the same as Defiance -5%. But math is hard for those people, and the low-end just sees DPS stance, and cares less about the healer.

Then you got the low-tier tanks that think "saving" the good stuff like Hallowed Ground for emergencies is going to make them a better player when in-reality there is no emergency. Nevermind if you use it early enough on the big pull to allow healer DPS, you'll get not just one but two or even more uses in a dungeon. Once again, cooldown math is hard.

[Taika]

Dungeons are the PERFECT time to learn how to use Cooldowns. What's the point of cooldowns if you don't even use them when they're like a pretty significant part of your skill set to begin with? You want to muscle memory your CD placement because in content where specific ones are relevant it's less button fumbling for the right one. So use them in dungeons.

A great point, and it's exactly the same with healing abilities!

[QT_Melon]

Then you got the low-tier tanks that think "saving" the good stuff like Hallowed Ground for emergencies is going to make them a better player when in-reality there is no emergency.

The funny thing about those saving such a CD is that 90% of the time they use it too late. You have server ticks, and animation locks to think about when using a CD near death.

[kikix12]

Final sting isn't something you use a cooldown for, it's something you stun.

I've said enough on the remainder. If you still think that what I said is without merit and you don't understand the slightest bit of that...then there's really no point in me continuing.

However, Final Sting is on Bee's that are in a dungeon where you either are a class (as in, Gladiator/Marauder) or have only three role abilities. Sure, Paladin have a built-in stun that he can spam (though it's on global cooldown, Final Sting have quite a warning to it if memory serves), but Warrior and Dark Knight do not. If that's the case, then you either have no stun, or only one cooldown to use in the dungeon (well, Warriors have Thrill of Battle). Unless you skip on Provoke, which technically is not needed in Quarn. Not anymore, anyway.
Alternatively...you could always be fighting two bees (quite easy to do, honestly) and just be unable to stun both.

Still, I'm willing to bet quite a lot that there's a bunch of tanks that don't take Low Blow there. Or possibly...anywhere. They really shouldn't have screwed up with the stuns the tanks had. Just add an off-cooldown stun to the Paladin, and to make up for them having two just keep it without damage. That's how it is now, but the other tanks don't have ANY without role skill...and no damage either...So really, this change was just horrid on the development part.