Dragoon Poll (Should DRG have a Wyvern?)

[Zanfire]

Simplest solution would be to just have the wyvern part of your soul like it is in almost every other instance of dragoon ff related or otherwise. To only come out as animations during buffs and attacks. I would rather be dragon-like myself than have one linked to me draining my power. Legend of the Dragoon like transformations as a high lv buff <yes, please>

Even if hate was linked to you it still doesn't change the fact that on big mobs your damage would be gimped because you're essentially giving up a noticable % of your power for a lower level companion who's stat's won't do crap against HNMs Gods etc...

yes because we know this for a fact....oh wait, your just making assumptions based on FFXI. Hell we dont even have HNMs yet...we may never get them for all we know. The pets stats...again should be added as part of yours, making in whole, what it would be if you didnt have it. Also it would be very easy for them to let you control what the pet does by adding its skills to your bar, so you dont have to worry about it doing what it did in FFXI by you WSing and it using the wrong breath type.

until you have seen it done in some form of this game, you cant sit there and say it would be unbalanced or suck, because it does not exist in any form to compare it to.

[NadienKirisame]

because too many people dont think to add their damage WITH their pets. We also have seen NO pet jobs in this game, so you can't sit there and say there is balancing issues when this game doesnt even have them to begin with. get your head out of FFXI for a few mins please.

You keep coming up with this think outside the box thing... As I said in the other thread it could be taken both ways. They can not think outside the box but also you can not think outside the box. You are both trapped inside said box and can not escape no matter what you do since you will always point back to FFXI no matter which way you go.

Also it is not about not thinking to add the pet dmg to the DRG dmg it is about (as I have stated before) wanting a DRG with traditional and trademark DRG abilities/items. Yes some people also do not want the wyvern for the fact if the wyvern dies you lose a portion of your dmg and thus become weaker...

Yes I know you want to have the wyvern be invincible and all dmg it does will give the DRG more hate so that the DRG does not have to worry about the pet dieing and the DRG can not use the pet to kill things with no recourse on the DRG, however, the DRG could still use said pet to kite the mob around and the pet will kill it... but wait all mobs have ranged attacks you say... um yeah because I never out run the range of those as well. Pretty much the wyvern would have to have some convoluted checks and balance system to make sure none of this happens and would just be a pain in the rear for it.

The cat is bemused =-.-=

Edit to fix a type that should not have been the word it was

[CrystalWeapon]

yes because we know this for a fact....oh wait, your just making assumptions based on FFXI. Hell we dont even have HNMs yet...we may never get them for all we know. The pets stats...again should be added as part of yours, making in whole, what it would be if you didnt have it. Also it would be very easy for them to let you control what the pet does by adding its skills to your bar, so you dont have to worry about it doing what it did in FFXI by you WSing and it using the wrong breath type.

until you have seen it done in some form of this game, you cant sit there and say it would be unbalanced or suck, because it does not exist in any form to compare it to.

It doesn't take a genius to know how the pets will be implimented. They have a majority of the framework for a pet system done already, and it has been commented on before. They said so around the time they added the personal chocobos.

How in the world do you think they would add your stats to it without having it act as a weakened character? How will it's damage be discerned? Will it have absolutely no stats of its own? That's now how the current pet system they have worked out will play out. They already said the pets will have their own level and their own stats.

I'm also sure that they said somewhere along the lines that you could only control one pet at a time. So if I have a drake as a mount and a wyvern I'll be forced to use one or the other. If I use the drake I'll have a harder hitting pet (provided it's leveled) but I lose the portion of my strength dedicated to my wyvern. If I use my wyvern I get it's abilities and it's strength factored in but the pet itself won't be all that strong. Not to mention those abilities given to the wyvern are on the wyvern and the wyvern alone. If I were a stand alone dragoon, I would not only get the power I would also get those abilities on my person at all times with the additional ability to call a companion be it chocobo, drake, ahrim, etc...

I'm not making assumptions based on ffxi, I'm making assumptions based on my background in programming. It's not as black and white as you're trying to make it, and it's no wheres near as simple to impliment as you think. You're not looking at all possible situations. You want it your way and you're only looking at the good points to adding it.

I love pets, don't get me wrong... I just don't see it working out how you want it, and the way that you want it is the way that xi did it i.e. a pet linked to you that doesn't take up a party slot and shares stats / abilities with your character. The only way I would ever want a wyvern for my dragoon, is if they implimented it how the mounts are being implimented. A stand alone pet that takes up a party member slot. One that doesn't share stats with me and has it's own level ability and skillset that in no way shape or form takes anything from my dragoon.

[Alerith]

Give the Dragoon:
Polearms
Jump
Breath Attacks

Summoner NEEDS pets.
Beastmaster NEEDS pets.
Puppetmaster NEEDS pets.

Dragoon does not.

[Zanfire]

You keep coming up with this think outside the box thing... As I said in the other thread it could be taken both ways. They can not think outside the box but also you can not think outside the box. You are both trapped inside said box and can not escape no matter what you do since you will always point back to FFXI no matter which way you go.

Also it is not about not thinking to add the pet dmg to the DRG dmg it is about (as I have stated before) wanting a DRG with traditional and trademark DRG abilities/items. Yes some people also do not want the wyvern for the fact if the wyvern dies you lose a portion of your dmg and thus become weaker...

Yes I know you want to have the wyvern be invincible and all dmg it does will give the DRG more hate so that the DRG does not have to worry about the pet dieing and the DRG can not use the pet you kill things with no recourse on the DRG, however, the DRG could still use said pet to kite the mob around and the pet will kill it... but wait all mobs have ranged attacks you say... um yeah because I never out run the range of those as well. Pretty much the wyvern would have to have some convoluted checks and balance system to make sure none of this happens and would just be a pain in the rear for it.

The cat is bemused =-.-=

did you not read? the pets hate is your hate, simple solution which means the pet CAN NOT take hate, only the DRG himself can.

also thinking inside the box on this one means only refering to FFXI and not seeing how things could wourk "outside" of that, which so many people do.

[grandm]

did you not read? the pets hate is your hate, simple solution which means the pet CAN NOT take hate, only the DRG himself can.

also thinking inside the box on this one means only refering to FFXI and not seeing how things could wourk "outside" of that, which so many people do.

no the "pet hate" is my hate. i hate the idea of a stupid wyvern, i like the idea of a dragoon knight. not a dragoon/beastmaster hybrid,

but anyways i wonder how the poll is doing. i wonder if the "i want a wyvern" likes have taking over the "i don't want a stupid wyvern" likes.

[Scherwiz]

I want Dragoon to have a Donkey.... where my Donkey?

This is a very important question, and I feel it needs a dev team response.

[NadienKirisame]

did you not read? the pets hate is your hate, simple solution which means the pet CAN NOT take hate, only the DRG himself can.

also thinking inside the box on this one means only refering to FFXI and not seeing how things could wourk "outside" of that, which so many people do.

That should have said that the DRG could not use the pet to kill with no recourse I edited the post... but that still leaves the other part about kiting using the pet... so the hate goes to the DRG but the DRG runs away with the wyvern still attacking. I don't know about you but I have very easily out ran mobs to where the ranged attack can not hit me and even if you said they would have to keep the weapon out you can still get away. as I said the checks and balances against the wyvern/DRG to make sure they can not do this would just be annoying for the programmer that has to put it in and could cause unknown errors or bugs in trying to do this.

But its going to happen no matter what as FFXI was the first and only FF game that had the DRG with a wyvern so both sides are linked to FFXi because of that and thus both sides are stuck in this box that you say they can not think out of. Now I'm not really thinking or caring so much about FFXI I really want the traditional DRG with the trademark abilities/items and would be so very happy with the DRG from FFT... though I understand every one and wanted something more with DRG. Something that defines it and makes it stand out more then the other jobs. If the DRG had say draconic attack abilities/breath attacks that would make them stand out would it not? a WAR or MNK would not be shooting flames and such from their mouths... This has been stated before and also is a more common DRG added ability then the wyvern was.

Also when it comes to the box you could say the for wyvern group is stuck more then the box because the wyvern was only even in FFXI and thus you are thinking of how the FFXI wyvern could be pulled into this game but made more effective then it was in FFXI... another issue with your in the box comments...

The cat is bemused =-.-=

[Zanfire]

That should have said that the DRG could not use the pet to kill with no recourse I edited the post... but that still leaves the other part about kiting using the pet... so the hate goes to the DRG but the DRG runs away with the wyvern still attacking. I don't know about you but I have very easily out ran mobs to where the ranged attack can not hit me and even if you said they would have to keep the weapon out you can still get away. as I said the checks and balances against the wyvern/DRG to make sure they can not do this would just be annoying for the programmer that has to put it in and could cause unknown errors or bugs in trying to do this.

But its going to happen no matter what as FFXI was the first and only FF game that had the DRG with a wyvern so both sides are linked to FFXi because of that and thus both sides are stuck in this box that you say they can not think out of. Now I'm not really thinking or caring so much about FFXI I really want the traditional DRG with the trademark abilities/items and would be so very happy with the DRG from FFT... though I understand every one and wanted something more with DRG. Something that defines it and makes it stand out more then the other jobs. If the DRG had say draconic attack abilities/breath attacks that would make them stand out would it not? a WAR or MNK would not be shooting flames and such from their mouths... This has been stated before and also is a more common DRG added ability then the wyvern was.

Also when it comes to the box you could say the for wyvern group is stuck more then the box because the wyvern was only even in FFXI and thus you are thinking of how the FFXI wyvern could be pulled into this game but made more effective then it was in FFXI... another issue with your in the box comments...

The cat is bemused =-.-=

im sure something like the drg putting the weapon away or not attacking would make the wyvern not attack, it doesnt seem like a big issue if you think about it a little. The only example of an "exploit" so far has been about kiting, which is easily fixed.

the box thing means do think its going to be exactly like FFXI, clearly the game plays very differently so it wouldnt work just like FFXI. Many of peoples arguments are purely about how it didnt work in FFXI, but that does not mean it cant work different and wonderfully here.

I think until they can give us an idea as to how Yoshi sees it working, asking us what we want is asking for pure speculation to run rampant (like it has) better off asking the devs how it would work beyond the minimal info we have before asking us if we want it.

[NadienKirisame]

im sure something like the drg putting the weapon away or not attacking would make the wyvern not attack, it doesnt seem like a big issue if you think about it a little. The only example of an "exploit" so far has been about kiting, which is easily fixed.

the box thing means do think its going to be exactly like FFXI, clearly the game plays very differently so it wouldnt work just like FFXI. Many of peoples arguments are purely about how it didnt work in FFXI, but that does not mean it cant work different and wonderfully here.

I think until they can give us an idea as to how Yoshi sees it working, asking us what we want is asking for pure speculation to run rampant (like it has) better off asking the devs how it would work beyond the minimal info we have before asking us if we want it.

That is true about waiting and seeing what Yoshi and the devs think... though I think we have hashed out a lot in these topics though some it would seem are attacks at each other. I like to think maybe we could try and think of ways it could both work with and with out the wyvern... like abilities and such for if the DRG is a dragon killer or if the DRG is a pet class. Though I'm sure this line of talk would be hard to do since most go right to the yes wyvern or no wyvern state and wont try to see it in the middle...

The cat is amused =^.^=