Dragoon Poll (Should DRG have a Wyvern?)

[Zanfire]

Why do people keep advocating for a Wyvern, when they have not really offered a concrete solution to the balancing for the player and the pet? No matter what happens, when you have a pet, your player-character's stats ARE going to get nerfed. We've seen what a nightmare that's become for the DRG in XI - constant retweaking of the stats to try to find the sweet spot, and yet it was never found.

Nobody. Wants. That.

If Dragoon is going to get a pet, it should be only usable as a mount. Period.

For now, I am comfortable with the fact that the pet system will never be implemented before 2.0, and this should give everyone an opportunity to get accustomed to a wyvern-less DRG.

because too many people dont think to add their damage WITH their pets. We also have seen NO pet jobs in this game, so you can't sit there and say there is balancing issues when this game doesnt even have them to begin with. get your head out of FFXI for a few mins please.

[CrystalWeapon]

because too many people dont think to add their damage WITH their pets ...

The same could be said about how people don't calculate in that damage reductions will be applied to both the dragoon and their pet's stats. It makes balancing damage a nightmare and se has a tendancy to make things underpowered instead of overpowered when a choice has to be made.

Not to mention the wyvern could die cutting a portion of the dragoon's power out. As stated before you could just make the wyvern invincibile, but then you'd have exploits to that. You could kite with your weapon out till your wyvern took hate, and then all you would have to do would be to sit back and watch it solo.

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely loved my wyvern in XI, but I don't want to go through the exclusion that existed with the job for the longest time. Having to go rdm to everything b/c drg did lol damage on gods and what not. It's not a matter of thinking outside the box. The dev team clearly stated wyverns would make dragoon weaker and that balancing would be very difficult. We all know what that is going to mean for the job if the changes go through, and I have yet to see a post about balancing drg with a wyvern that has even come close to a satisfactory solution.

[Zanfire]

The same could be said about how people don't calculate in that damage reductions will be applied to both the dragoon and their pet's stats. It makes balancing damage a nightmare and se has a tendancy to make things underpowered instead of overpowered when a choice has to be made.

Not to mention the wyvern could die cutting a portion of the dragoon's power out. As stated before you could just make the wyvern invincibile, but then you'd have exploits to that. You could kite with your weapon out till your wyvern took hate, and then all you would have to do would be to sit back and watch it solo.

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely loved my wyvern in XI, but I don't want to go through the exclusion that existed with the job for the longest time. Having to go rdm to everything b/c drg did lol damage on gods and what not. It's not a matter of thinking outside the box. The dev team clearly stated wyverns would make dragoon weaker and that balancing would be very difficult. We all know what that is going to mean for the job if the changes go through, and I have yet to see a post about balancing drg with a wyvern that has even come close to a satisfactory solution.

simple fix, the wyverns hate is your hate, cant exploit the "it cant die" bit. Or have a REALLY low recast, that might work too.

[Kailea_Nagisa]

because too many people dont think to add their damage WITH their pets. We also have seen NO pet jobs in this game, so you can't sit there and say there is balancing issues when this game doesnt even have them to begin with. get your head out of FFXI for a few mins please.

the people not wanting a pet for Dragoon are not he one's that need to think outside the box, like others have said, and I have even said before, I want to see Dragoon do something different this time.

Besides what is with some of you "there are no pet jobs at all in FFXIV so give Dragoon one" uuummm no? FFXIV needs a pet job yeah, but if it is to get one, it does not need to be Dragoon, it needs to be Beast Master, or hell a new version of Puppet Master.

[grandm]

the people not wanting a pet for Dragoon are not he one's that need to think outside the box, like others have said, and I have even said before, I want to see Dragoon do something different this time.

Besides what is with some of you "there are no pet jobs at all in FFXIV so give Dragoon one" uuummm no? FFXIV needs a pet job yeah, but if it is to get one, it does not need to be Dragoon, it needs to be Beast Master, or hell a new version of Puppet Master.

are you saying. a pet class should be a pet class designed from the ground up, and not just a DD that gets given a pet to please ppl that get lonely? hmm this logic strange, next you will be saying mages should get spells or paladins should get shields

/mutters. "pet classes should get pets, whatever next"

[NadienKirisame]

because too many people dont think to add their damage WITH their pets. We also have seen NO pet jobs in this game, so you can't sit there and say there is balancing issues when this game doesnt even have them to begin with. get your head out of FFXI for a few mins please.

You keep coming up with this think outside the box thing... As I said in the other thread it could be taken both ways. They can not think outside the box but also you can not think outside the box. You are both trapped inside said box and can not escape no matter what you do since you will always point back to FFXI no matter which way you go.

Also it is not about not thinking to add the pet dmg to the DRG dmg it is about (as I have stated before) wanting a DRG with traditional and trademark DRG abilities/items. Yes some people also do not want the wyvern for the fact if the wyvern dies you lose a portion of your dmg and thus become weaker...

Yes I know you want to have the wyvern be invincible and all dmg it does will give the DRG more hate so that the DRG does not have to worry about the pet dieing and the DRG can not use the pet to kill things with no recourse on the DRG, however, the DRG could still use said pet to kite the mob around and the pet will kill it... but wait all mobs have ranged attacks you say... um yeah because I never out run the range of those as well. Pretty much the wyvern would have to have some convoluted checks and balance system to make sure none of this happens and would just be a pain in the rear for it.

The cat is bemused =-.-=

Edit to fix a type that should not have been the word it was

[Zanfire]

You keep coming up with this think outside the box thing... As I said in the other thread it could be taken both ways. They can not think outside the box but also you can not think outside the box. You are both trapped inside said box and can not escape no matter what you do since you will always point back to FFXI no matter which way you go.

Also it is not about not thinking to add the pet dmg to the DRG dmg it is about (as I have stated before) wanting a DRG with traditional and trademark DRG abilities/items. Yes some people also do not want the wyvern for the fact if the wyvern dies you lose a portion of your dmg and thus become weaker...

Yes I know you want to have the wyvern be invincible and all dmg it does will give the DRG more hate so that the DRG does not have to worry about the pet dieing and the DRG can not use the pet you kill things with no recourse on the DRG, however, the DRG could still use said pet to kite the mob around and the pet will kill it... but wait all mobs have ranged attacks you say... um yeah because I never out run the range of those as well. Pretty much the wyvern would have to have some convoluted checks and balance system to make sure none of this happens and would just be a pain in the rear for it.

The cat is bemused =-.-=

did you not read? the pets hate is your hate, simple solution which means the pet CAN NOT take hate, only the DRG himself can.

also thinking inside the box on this one means only refering to FFXI and not seeing how things could wourk "outside" of that, which so many people do.

[grandm]

did you not read? the pets hate is your hate, simple solution which means the pet CAN NOT take hate, only the DRG himself can.

also thinking inside the box on this one means only refering to FFXI and not seeing how things could wourk "outside" of that, which so many people do.

no the "pet hate" is my hate. i hate the idea of a stupid wyvern, i like the idea of a dragoon knight. not a dragoon/beastmaster hybrid,

but anyways i wonder how the poll is doing. i wonder if the "i want a wyvern" likes have taking over the "i don't want a stupid wyvern" likes.

[NadienKirisame]

did you not read? the pets hate is your hate, simple solution which means the pet CAN NOT take hate, only the DRG himself can.

also thinking inside the box on this one means only refering to FFXI and not seeing how things could wourk "outside" of that, which so many people do.

That should have said that the DRG could not use the pet to kill with no recourse I edited the post... but that still leaves the other part about kiting using the pet... so the hate goes to the DRG but the DRG runs away with the wyvern still attacking. I don't know about you but I have very easily out ran mobs to where the ranged attack can not hit me and even if you said they would have to keep the weapon out you can still get away. as I said the checks and balances against the wyvern/DRG to make sure they can not do this would just be annoying for the programmer that has to put it in and could cause unknown errors or bugs in trying to do this.

But its going to happen no matter what as FFXI was the first and only FF game that had the DRG with a wyvern so both sides are linked to FFXi because of that and thus both sides are stuck in this box that you say they can not think out of. Now I'm not really thinking or caring so much about FFXI I really want the traditional DRG with the trademark abilities/items and would be so very happy with the DRG from FFT... though I understand every one and wanted something more with DRG. Something that defines it and makes it stand out more then the other jobs. If the DRG had say draconic attack abilities/breath attacks that would make them stand out would it not? a WAR or MNK would not be shooting flames and such from their mouths... This has been stated before and also is a more common DRG added ability then the wyvern was.

Also when it comes to the box you could say the for wyvern group is stuck more then the box because the wyvern was only even in FFXI and thus you are thinking of how the FFXI wyvern could be pulled into this game but made more effective then it was in FFXI... another issue with your in the box comments...

The cat is bemused =-.-=

[Zanfire]

That should have said that the DRG could not use the pet to kill with no recourse I edited the post... but that still leaves the other part about kiting using the pet... so the hate goes to the DRG but the DRG runs away with the wyvern still attacking. I don't know about you but I have very easily out ran mobs to where the ranged attack can not hit me and even if you said they would have to keep the weapon out you can still get away. as I said the checks and balances against the wyvern/DRG to make sure they can not do this would just be annoying for the programmer that has to put it in and could cause unknown errors or bugs in trying to do this.

But its going to happen no matter what as FFXI was the first and only FF game that had the DRG with a wyvern so both sides are linked to FFXi because of that and thus both sides are stuck in this box that you say they can not think out of. Now I'm not really thinking or caring so much about FFXI I really want the traditional DRG with the trademark abilities/items and would be so very happy with the DRG from FFT... though I understand every one and wanted something more with DRG. Something that defines it and makes it stand out more then the other jobs. If the DRG had say draconic attack abilities/breath attacks that would make them stand out would it not? a WAR or MNK would not be shooting flames and such from their mouths... This has been stated before and also is a more common DRG added ability then the wyvern was.

Also when it comes to the box you could say the for wyvern group is stuck more then the box because the wyvern was only even in FFXI and thus you are thinking of how the FFXI wyvern could be pulled into this game but made more effective then it was in FFXI... another issue with your in the box comments...

The cat is bemused =-.-=

im sure something like the drg putting the weapon away or not attacking would make the wyvern not attack, it doesnt seem like a big issue if you think about it a little. The only example of an "exploit" so far has been about kiting, which is easily fixed.

the box thing means do think its going to be exactly like FFXI, clearly the game plays very differently so it wouldnt work just like FFXI. Many of peoples arguments are purely about how it didnt work in FFXI, but that does not mean it cant work different and wonderfully here.

I think until they can give us an idea as to how Yoshi sees it working, asking us what we want is asking for pure speculation to run rampant (like it has) better off asking the devs how it would work beyond the minimal info we have before asking us if we want it.