Dear Healers who don't DPS

[Tridus]

Sylphie has the two best WHM class quests (technically one WHM and one CNJ, of course).

The Stormblood one? Kicked me right in the feels.

[Cynfael]

there is no reasonable argument...

Bingo. The problem we're having with this thread is the lack of reasonable arguments on the other side.

Pretty much every attempt to excuse experienced players from using their full kits turns into one of the following:

- War on Straw (usually an attack against elitism, harassment, or some other objectionable behavior)

- All My Parties Suck

- I Do What I Want (the ultimate selfish argument, because who cares about their fellow player's experience, right?)

[Aylis]

As a very long time healer, I'll be the first to admit yes I do play very conservatively when grouped with randoms in terms of how much DPS I put out. It's not because I'm "lazy" nor is it because I want a "carry" It's because, well...I don't know you or the rest of the party. You can tell me all day you have all tanks max level. That really doesn't tell me anything. Did you learn to play the tank from the ground up? Did you just fate grind for faster que's? I don't know. I could look at your lodestone character page all day, all it is to me is a guessing game on which class you know vs ones you don't. You could very well be the best tank in the game for all I know. It takes a little more time then one simple dungeon to fully gauge a tank and find out what I can and can't get away with. Also, its not just about the tank. It's the rest of the group as well. I don't know their capabilities as much as I don't know yours. I can't speak for other healers, just myself.

Also...

Quite honestly, it makes me want to stand in said AOE, to get hurt as much as possible if the healers I'm grouped with only want to heal. Why should I work harder if they are not willing to as well?

This does not help the situation all in in showing me in that one fast dungeon that a tank is a capable tank while I'm still gauging the tank's abilities.

[Taika]

As a very long time healer, I'll be the first to admit yes I do play very conservatively when grouped with randoms in terms of how much DPS I put out. It's not because I'm "lazy" nor is it because I want a "carry"

I don't think anyone would have an issue with this. As long as you're not standing still doing absolutely nothing or /mandervilledancing away for significant periods of time, it's all good. The healers people have issues with are the ones who absolutely refuse to do anything but healing - even when there isn't much anything at all for them to heal.

[MoroMurasaki]

No job gets to choose which one of their abilities they're using and which they aren't. All jobs are expected to use what is the most useful in each particular situation. Healers aren't an exception to this, and there is no reasonable argument for why they should be.

One of the best and most concise summaries I've seen, personally I have multiple 3k+ word posts trying to just get this simple point across.

Sylphie has the two best WHM class quests (technically one WHM and one CNJ, of course).

The Stormblood one? Kicked me right in the feels.

Omg I cannot with those quests. I try not to even think about them honestly. Very well done though.

[Aylis]

I don't think anyone would have an issue with this. As long as you're not standing still doing absolutely nothing or /mandervilledancing away for significant periods of time, it's all good. The healers people have issues with are the ones who absolutely refuse to do anything but healing - even when there isn't much anything at all for them to heal.

Oh! Okay that's different then. Nah I really HATE just not doing anything. I may not go all out with a pug tank/group with my DPS as I would with a tank and group made of people who I know and we know each other and what we can do and here we need to pick up for each other, but I won't just not do anything.

[StragoMagus]

Guess it's a world server thing. When I used to be on Elemental (JP) healers aren't aggressive and at most use DOTs while the tanks pull conservatively focusing on a stress free gameplay. Quite the opposite on Chaos (EU).

[era1Ne]

Bingo. The problem we're having with this thread is the lack of reasonable arguments on the other side.

Pretty much every attempt to excuse experienced players from using their full kits turns into one of the following:

- War on Straw (usually an attack against elitism, harassment, or some other objectionable behavior)

- All My Parties Suck

- I Do What I Want (the ultimate selfish argument, because who cares about their fellow player's experience, right?)

Is it an reasonable argument to say "i'll stand in every aoe to force new healers to heal more, if they don't want to dps?" No, it is not. Is it reasonable to start an insane discussion, when someone and i remember this happend - months ago - said "Well, i do dps, but i don't like it. Healers in games should heal more". When he basically did what people want, but just stated his opinion on healers in the game. I remember at the time, some comments where really toxic for no real reason, because he didn't refuse to do dmg. Just didnt like how healers play in this game.

Both sides can be unreasonable and Aylis is right that it doesn't help new healers, when you just don't use cd or start standing in everything, because then they get even more insecure, since they expect nothing but the worst of the group and they usually don't want people to die. Instead we should help them and tell them, "look we didn't get a lot of dmg, you can do a few dmg cast. Trust us". Helps much more than deliberately playing very bad to force the healer healing much more, because this could give him the mindset that there is really no place to do (a lot of) dmg. Which is ofc wrong, since there is a lot of space to do dmg. Additionally the dd comparisons are sometimes bad, because you literally can't kill people in 90% of the dungeons with doing your rotation wrongly. But you can kill people, if you don't heal in the right moments. While i get that people want healers to dps and personally i like healers to dps aswell, some people don't see the difference between dps and healers mistakes and what they can mean for the group. Heal mistakes have an higher risk of killing people and this makes a difference.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

As a very long time healer, I'll be the first to admit yes I do play very conservatively when grouped with randoms in terms of how much DPS I put out. It's not because I'm "lazy" nor is it because I want a "carry" It's because, well...I don't know you or the rest of the party.

To be fair, it isn't difficult to adjust. My opening gambit is to always Swiftcast Holy into Aero III; maybe with a Cure II/Tetra once the pull settles if they took excessive damage along the way that Regen won't account for. That gives me more than enough time to see how the tank's handling the pull. If their HP drops faster than normal, I have Presence of Mind and Largesse available. Either way, like Taika said, there is a difference between feeling out your party and standing around doing absolutely nothing.

Guess it's a world server thing. When I used to be on Elemental (JP) healers aren't aggressive and at most use DOTs while the tanks pull conservatively focusing on a stress free gameplay. Quite the opposite on Chaos (EU).

JP has a noticeably different approach to all content. Non-hardcore groups consider it rude for both tanks to be in DPS stance or both healers to have Cleric going before that was removed. Westerns prefer a faster paced playgame, thus we do huge pulls.

i remember this happend - months ago - said "Well, i do dps, but i don't like it. Healers in games should heal more". When he basically did what people want, but just stated his opinion on healers in the game. I remember at the time, some comments where really toxic for no real reason, because he didn't refuse to do dmg. Just didnt like how healers play in this game.

You're remembering wrong then, because many here have advocated for more healing checks or something that necessitates greater emphasis on healing. Until such adjustments are made, we aren't going to support gimping your role because you dislike how healing jobs play in FFXIV. If you're refusing to DPS as a healer, you fall into three categories:

Inexperience/New - Few if anyone has taken umbrage with these players, provided they communicate.
Cautious - Basically, Aylis
Selfish - "It isn't my job to DPS."

That last one is what grinds people's gears. So much so, most people I have come across be it here, reddit or in-game prefer a wipe because a healer missed timed their oGCD than someone being overly cautious and not DPSing at all.

[Cynfael]

Is it an reasonable argument to say "i'll stand in every aoe to force new healers to heal more, if they don't want to dps?" No, it is not. Is it reasonable to start an insane discussion, when someone and i remember this happend - months ago - said "Well, i do dps, but i don't like it. Healers in games should heal more". When he basically did what people want, but just stated his opinion on healers in the game. I remember at the time, some comments where really toxic for no real reason, because he didn't refuse to do dmg. Just didnt like how healers play in this game.

Both sides can be unreasonable and Aylis is right that it doesn't help new healers, when you just don't use cd or start standing in everything, because then they get even more insecure, since they expect nothing but the worst of the group and they usually don't want people to die. Instead we should help them and tell them, "look we didn't get a lot of dmg, you can do a few dmg cast. Trust us". Helps much more than deliberately playing very bad to force the healer healing much more, because this could give him the mindset that there is really no place to do (a lot of) dmg. Which is ofc wrong, since there is a lot of space to do dmg. Additionally the dd comparisons are sometimes bad, because you literally can't kill people in 90% of the dungeons with doing your rotation wrongly. But you can kill people, if you don't heal in the right moments. While i get that people want healers to dps and personally i like healers to dps aswell, some people don't see the difference between dps and healers mistakes and what they can mean for the group. Heal mistakes have an higher risk of killing people and this makes a difference.

I'm not sure how we got from my post to talking about someone threatening to stand in AoEs. I didn't say that there weren't people being unreasonable on either side; I specifically agreed with a previous point that there was a lack of reasonable arguments in favor of able, experienced healers using their full kits appropriately.