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  1. #1
    Player
    Shurrikhan's Avatar
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    Sep 2011
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    12,874
    Character
    Tani Shirai
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Monk Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Hinoto-no-Ryuji View Post
    That aside, I want more of a connection between gameplay mechanics and lore - specifically, though far from restricted to, gear and its acquisition.

    It seems silly to me that there is no mini-narrative behind major gear sets like the Tomestone or artefact ones.
    Heck, it's pretty much salivation-worthy just to ponder over how the Sohm Al or Aery gear got there or would have been used by whoever was present before. In the first's case, were they dragon-riders? Mountain-people allied with them? Or take the smuggler's attire (especially in connection with Neverreap)—there are whole branches of content and mechanics that would seem to run underneath these simple dungeon gear sets, and yet their names and appearances are the only taste we get.
    (2)

  2. #2
    Player
    FJerome's Avatar
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    Oct 2013
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    1,014
    Character
    Edhe'li Merwyn
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    Weaver Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Shurrikhan View Post
    Heck, it's pretty much salivation-worthy just to ponder over how the Sohm Al or Aery gear got there or would have been used by whoever was present before. In the first's case, were they dragon-riders? Mountain-people allied with them? Or take the smuggler's attire (especially in connection with Neverreap)—there are whole branches of content and mechanics that would seem to run underneath these simple dungeon gear sets, and yet their names and appearances are the only taste we get.
    I've always assumed they were artifacts from the joint Elezen & Dravinian civilisation that predated Ishgard (which I've also always assumed was named Avalonia, going by the map names, but I don't think that's ever been confirmed). They've left ruins everywhere and I'd really like to ask a few dragons about those days, especially now a few of them seem to be quietly trying to recreate it.
    (1)

  3. #3
    Player
    Mysterysword's Avatar
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    Dec 2015
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    735
    Character
    Siesta Fiesta
    World
    Coeurl
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Shurrikhan View Post
    Heck, it's pretty much salivation-worthy just to ponder over how the Sohm Al or Aery gear got there or would have been used by whoever was present before.
    Bigger question: Why does Nidhogg keep pots of purple dye all over his home?
    (2)

  4. #4
    Player
    VargasVermillion's Avatar
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    Aug 2013
    Location
    Ul'dah
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    851
    Character
    Val Vermillion
    World
    Tonberry
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 80
    The actual threats antagonists pose or just more dangerous villains in general, using the garleans as an example I feel like stormblood has just shown them as completely incompetent and quite easy to route. We've heard time and time again how they are this big looming threat and yet every time we encounter them it's made out to be rather mundane and of no real impact or consequence. I mean I guess it comes down to funding but any of the 'battles' we see in cutscenes just look plain pathetic, Doma especially. Zenos on his own was great but everyone else and the empire as a fighting force just came off as lackluster and I think any cutscenes we get that display large conflicts in future should have just a little more work put into them.

    Speaking of warfare within this universe hearing general strategies for the average fighting man would be interesting, like I remember hearing Raubahn mentioning how scary it is to take on magitek armor for the first time, I'd like to hear more specifics about how standard rank and file actually deal with forces tougher than them, same with ishgard and the dragons as well or the general application of mages and how non-magic infantry deal with them, Oh and airships as well. How do Alliance forces take out juggernauts or dreadnoughts?
    (2)
    Last edited by VargasVermillion; 08-24-2017 at 08:04 AM.

  5. #5
    Player
    Enkidoh's Avatar
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    Dec 2012
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    Ala Mhigo
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    8,330
    Character
    Enkidoh Roux
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by VargasVermillion View Post
    How do Alliance forces take out juggernauts or dreadnoughts?
    Well, Drest's situation in Eastern La Noscea pretty much showed that the Alliance actively shoots down Garlean fighters such as Juggernauts with cannons (his Juggernaut he specifically stated was shot down by Maelstrom cannons), which would also explain the various wrecked airships and machina lying around the Fringes as well.

    And lets face facts, Juggernauts are hardly aerodynamic and somewhat cumbersome (resembling a flying stovepipe more than anything), thus they'd probably be much easier to hit than you would think, especially if the pilot foolishly decides to engage ground mode.

    Also End of an Era showed BLMs and THMs easily destroying magitek armour with mere fire and thunder spells, so for all their blustering, Garlean machina isn't quite as indestructible as they make it out to be.
    (0)

  6. #6
    Player
    VargasVermillion's Avatar
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    Aug 2013
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    Ul'dah
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    851
    Character
    Val Vermillion
    World
    Tonberry
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    Paladin Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Enkidoh View Post
    snip
    Juggernauts are believable but the actual warships? Not so much, unless they have ambush tactics for when they decide to land I would simply assume they are too high in the sky to simply shoot down with magic. It's more so how the lore hypes up garleans as this threatening military force with destructive weapons and warmachina yet they are shown to be quite easy to eliminate, I mean it'd be like having one side with airplanes and one with 1700's weaponry. It's pretty obvious which one would lose. Not to sound harsh but I think the lore within the actual plot is quite lazily implemented whereas the world surrounding it is quite in-depth and makes some degree of sense, it's just once that comes into the MS it becomes underwhelming.
    (0)

  7. #7
    Player
    FJerome's Avatar
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    Oct 2013
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    1,014
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    Edhe'li Merwyn
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    Weaver Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by VargasVermillion View Post
    Juggernauts are believable but the actual warships? Not so much, unless they have ambush tactics for when they decide to land I would simply assume they are too high in the sky to simply shoot down with magic. It's more so how the lore hypes up garleans as this threatening military force with destructive weapons and warmachina yet they are shown to be quite easy to eliminate, I mean it'd be like having one side with airplanes and one with 1700's weaponry. It's pretty obvious which one would lose. Not to sound harsh but I think the lore within the actual plot is quite lazily implemented whereas the world surrounding it is quite in-depth and makes some degree of sense, it's just once that comes into the MS it becomes underwhelming.
    The times we've seen actual warships brought down it was largely thanks to the Dravinians, Midgardsormr knocking that entire invasion force out of the air at the Battle of Lake Silvertear and Hraesvelgr giving Ysayle that assist in Azys Lla. As long as the dragons keep helping the Alliance out on that front, for whatever their own inscrutable reasons, Eorzea cannot be invaded by air using Garlemald's current technology standards.
    (1)
    Last edited by FJerome; 08-25-2017 at 07:56 AM.

  8. #8
    Player
    VargasVermillion's Avatar
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    Aug 2013
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    Ul'dah
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    Val Vermillion
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    Tonberry
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    Paladin Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by FJerome View Post
    As long as the dragons keep helping the Alliance out on that front, for whatever their own inscrutable reasons, Eorzea cannot be invaded by air using Garlemald's current technology standards.
    Still doesn't explain how they did it for ala mhigo, the dragons weren't there and even if there are some dragons there it's not a guaranteed victory, unless they have another midgardsormr. You're right that with the dravanians there they would have a hard time taking the skies in all of aldernard but that depends on whether the dragons would even bother, I remember being mentioned in a lore Q&A that when asked if they'd join the fight they said Dragons are simply indifferent to whatever empire exists at the time. to them Allag was only a few weeks ago.
    (0)

  9. #9
    Player
    Enkidoh's Avatar
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    Ala Mhigo
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    Enkidoh Roux
    World
    Balmung
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    Paladin Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by VargasVermillion View Post
    Juggernauts are believable but the actual warships? Not so much, unless they have ambush tactics for when they decide to land I would simply assume they are too high in the sky to simply shoot down with magic. It's more so how the lore hypes up garleans as this threatening military force with destructive weapons and warmachina yet they are shown to be quite easy to eliminate, I mean it'd be like having one side with airplanes and one with 1700's weaponry. It's pretty obvious which one would lose. Not to sound harsh but I think the lore within the actual plot is quite lazily implemented whereas the world surrounding it is quite in-depth and makes some degree of sense, it's just once that comes into the MS it becomes underwhelming.
    Don't be so quick to discount Eorzean military technology and the apparent 'superiority' of Garlean machina - we ourselves after all shoot down a fully armed and armoured Garlean dreadnought airship during CM with a single ground-based anti-aircraft cannon (granted the cannon was also Garlean made, but that's beside the point) and the ship quickly becomes scrap metal after only a couple of hits.

    The various wrecks seen in the Fringes are still on fire so their destruction was fairly recent, and was probably caused by Alliance cannons mounted on the Wall (which is very tall), so problems with range would have been reduced or eliminated.

    To say nothing of research guilds like the Garlond Ironworks and the Skysteel Manufactory utilizing Garlean magitek concepts and adapting them for their own use, thus allowing the Alliance to effectively turn Garlemald's might against them.

    Either way, don't write off the ability of the Alliance to bring down Garlean airships reasonably easily, as it's clear they indeed are more than capable of doing it.
    (2)
    Last edited by Enkidoh; 08-26-2017 at 03:28 PM.

  10. #10
    Player
    VargasVermillion's Avatar
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    Aug 2013
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    Ul'dah
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    851
    Character
    Val Vermillion
    World
    Tonberry
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Enkidoh View Post
    snip
    These are all good points but I feel like if these examples reflect reality it should be made more clear and kinda goes back to what I'd like to see more of within the lore, specifically when stormblood's MS took center stage. Because it basically feels like we've gone from being scared of fighting the imperials head on to just doing it with little change in circumstances, Also retaking Doma castle in particular was very underwhelming but I'm just assuming they got lazy with the cutscenes before the dungeon and we are to guess more happend off-screen.
    (0)

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