SCH adlo and succor

[Silver-Strider]

Snip.

I'm not taking anything into account other than what was provided in your example, which was heavily bias towards SCH. Assize is outlined in your example and the MP return of it should be taken into consideration because of it, whereas Aetherflow could have been used prior to the fight and could result in 0 MP return as a result; we don't know because it's not mentioned in the example at all.

Assize and Aetherflow need to be kept on CD for the EXACT same reason (you lose MP if you don't) so this is a strawman argument.

Please don't insult my intelligence.

[Dregenfox]

I'm not taking anything into account other than what was provided in your example, which was heavily bias towards SCH. Assize is outlined in your example and the MP return of it should be taken into consideration because of it, whereas Aetherflow could have been used prior to the fight and could result in 0 MP return as a result; we don't know because it's not mentioned in the example at all.

Assize and Aetherflow need to be kept on CD for the EXACT same reason (you lose MP if you don't) so this is a strawman argument.

Please don't insult my intelligence.

Still seems like you're not getting it...Indom for SCH requires a stack of Aetherflow, which can only be gained by using the skill Aetherflow (only exception is dissipation). The 10% mana part is tacked onto both classes and is required to use either Assize or Indom. Exactly when that mana gain happens doesn't really matter.

The SCH loses nothing by keeping AF on cooldown because he can E-drain any remaining stacks and be back at 3 stacks again with no impact on indom usage. For a WHM to come close to matching that they need 3x lilies and need to use Assize the moment it comes off CD, which may not be the moment your party needs the aoe healing.

This is why it doesn't make sense to factor in the mana gain. It's completely arbitrary and can be discussed in favor of this or that situation forever.

[Silver-Strider]

Snip

Even if we discount the MP return, Assize still does more upfront damage than SCH can dish out in 1 GCD so regardless of the situation, WHM would still pull ahead but we've derailed the thread long enough so I say we just agree to disagree.

[Vyriah]

(...)

Because MP management isn't the matter yet every one still come back to hit because "bad healers".

I don't think one single second that someone in the developpement team of this game actually though "we have to increase succor cost to make player think before that cast it", because to get to that conclusion you have to look what succor actualy does to noticce it doesn't do much. Its something that have to do with preventing damage vs healing it, and what succor preventing is generally not as high as raw numbers makes it look. But if there's no reason not to cast it if you though it would made raid healing easier and you're not dead set on doing much DPS possible, why not. It feels rewarding and isn't unfair to other healers, while extremly rarely being mandatory. And I'm not specially talking about top 5% savage raid environement, but basically any 8-players content. It's effect wasn't good enough already punishing in cas of abuse, there was no reason to adress it. The new SCH "MP management" doesn't exist, every just press the new mana boutton whenever its off CD. It's the exact opposite of management.
It even makes the game go backward in a weird way : if its alway on CD, it means that MP starvation only exist to make you push the mana boutton. And now one care about that. Especially SCH that was already doing real ressource management before, pressing that boutton every 2 minutes is just unneeded noise. I'm not sure how you could feel that misplaced arrogance about even doing it. Where's the management when there's only one obvious good solution ?

I get a good chuckle out of Scholars claiming the fairy just "feels so worthless and weak". It's so wimpy that it's only the highest potency regen tick in the entire game (Fey Union notwithstanding), and that's including the pet tax. And the Heavensward and Stormblood nerfs.

Is that a joke ?

It is still, again, the same thing over and over. Either your alone on a 4-man and that stronger fairy tick compensate global weaker hardcast spells. Or you're in 8-man and both tick cummulate. What you're saying is not less stupid, it's not like the game is a DoT contest or whatever. Those belong to different character playing different ways.