Just realized something: FFXIV is a terrible DPS player's DREAM come true...

[LalaRu]

... ppl would care about coming prepared and their performance for the role they signed up.

That means, you will allow only exp people using DF.

One of the things I like when playing, is my ability to figure out mechanics. I am not one of the ones that goes on youtube or websites to understand a fight because the fun of a game, at least to me, is also figuring the mechanics, it is also part of the fun the game provides.

I'm not in world-first kill groups because I've now only casual time for play, but this does not means I have today to give up my fun because you want the fastest kill in a PUG. For that kind of expertise there is your fc, your friends, your static, but not the duty finder.

[Paladinleeds]

snip

Please, please, PLEASE, try and get a hold of this study. I want to see the results from it. I want to read this, and I hate reading studies. But this just sounds like it'd be one hilarious read.

[Snow_Princess]

OP did it really take you 2 expansions to notice that? xD

If you read his other threads, I am pretty sure he is a new player, joined very end of HW or a week or so after SB (after early release)

In my opinion this is not good. It would falsely inflate or deflate egos. Someone could be like "wow I'm first in dps!" but little do they know they're only 1% ahead of both the tank and other dps. Or on the flip side someone being upset that they're always second and they have no clue how close their dps is to whoever is first. Or even someone always being second thinking it's okay for them to be second because they're a dps and they have no idea that their dps is barely over the tank, which is actually bad at high lvl.

Either have a proper parser or have none. Rankings with zero information attached are basically useless because they can too easily give a very false impression of performance.

This is correct, it can give a false positive, Oh look I am doing so much more then the other dps, neglecting the fact said DPS is in a mix of i130-i200 gear in different slots in a 61 DF. The idea the enmity bars do not give any indication is also false. Unless the person is SMN or using enmity reducing abilities, there is not a lot of them, the enmity bars do give a good indication. The only other time I seen them off is when 2 dps are SUPER CLOSE 0-2% and they "switch off" a lot because they are so close, the enmity bars would favor fast hitters like MNK/ drg/ melee in general then say blm. The emitiy bar will favor MNK or DRG a bit (assuming the drg does not use elusive jump) appearing a bit higher then the BLM despite the BLM having slightly more DPS. The difference is so tiny though it is pretty much negligible and you can pretty much say the 2 have the same DPS since the bars would be nearly equal anyway. (the enmity bars would appear the same length, just one will have a "2" and the other would have a "3")

Knowing you do more then someone else is such a farce I can't even.. it is more like knowing how you do the most out of your rotation for a given fight. If you can manage to kill stuff fast, and research rotations, you should know you are doing well regardless. If you play the game a lot, you can feel how fast stuff should die. I pretty much know, if we are talking about 4 man, if I am doing more or less then the other person just based what is going on. The proof that I do get it right every time is from watching a steam of it later who happens to have a parser.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...true.../page11
Ill give you an example on how I lightly "called" out someone the other day for low DPS. I noticed we had low DPS on the first pull, but the thing was it was deemed what I find acceptable, in expert. It was not super gimp, but on the lower end of things. I was not suffering too bad when it came to needing to heal too much so I did not say anything. Even without checking I suspected it was the BRD in our group but I was not exmaing them closely so I did not know for sure at that point on first pull. All that mattered was me knowing the dps was on the lower end and I may need do extra CD use (on SCH) to deal with it.

Well on one pull after the second boss the lack of DPS end up mattering. It was not even a full mega pull like I seen at times (2/3) of it and yet I was spent all my CDs and despite that, I could not keep up healing, the tank was taking more then I could heal after I spent everything. Luckily things started to die before the tank hit 0 and began to out healing the damage. So I checked the brds gear and it was a glaring problem. First I said, "Oh it is simply from the BRD not being geared up enough for pulls like that" after I commented that we nearly wiped because of low DPS (trying to explain I spent all my CDs) I asked if they knew about the 290 gear from the quest and do their best to upgrade weapon ASAP, the lack of DPS really hurt on that particular pull.

Now clearly the SMN would be ranked higher on proposed DPS meter thing, but that does not tell us if the SMN is good or bad just because they did more damage then a BRD in gimp gear. (highly likely the SMN knew what they where doing, along with the brd, it seemed it was just a gear issue on the brd part, to have things die like they where, I seen much worse with both DPS being geared better.) Without a parser you really just need to hone your observance skills and learn what all jobs can do, if you want to know who is being bad, acceptable, and over the top godly.

Another situation where "DPS rank" would not help is a high tank with somewhat lower end DPS, the DPS could be doing more damage then the tank in the case, but you got no clue they should be doing a lot more and would be unable to see it.

[Skogli]

This is the same topic about trying to force parsers and dps meters into the game. It's just a slightly more subtle attempt. Spam.

[RichardButte]

Actually while filling in as tank for a raid static today they suggested I get drunk to deal with being nervous lol. I didn't because my doctor said no drinking.

I'm sure you did fine. I may not agree with all of your points but you've articulated them well enough for me to tell you're no dummy.

But from this and the post below, it seems the "Drunken Master" tanking approach may have some merit to it after all! (which is of course to be slightly buzzed, but don't go into "black-out drunk")

OP did it really take you 2 expansions to notice that? xD

Honestly, it was the jarring switch from healing to DPSing that made me realize it more than anything.

Either have a proper parser or have none. Rankings with zero information attached are basically useless because they can too easily give a very false impression of performance.

You just gave me a good idea that might go a long way toward making parsers/trackers a solid and fun part of the game...

New thread incoming.

If you read his other threads, I am pretty sure he is a new player, joined very end of HW or a week or so after SB (after early release)

*Notes your forum join date*

*Notes my forum join date*

*Grins*

But seriously, I started in 1.0 and have watched this game grow since then. However, I never seriously mained a DPS until now, and it was the switch from heals to DPS that made me realize just how little pressure is on me (outside of a static, of course).

[Oscura]

This is the same topic about trying to force parsers and dps meters into the game. It's just a slightly more subtle attempt. Spam.

I should start going to any thread that even so much as implies adding something I dislike and then immediately call it spam. Or "forcing" it into the game. I'm sure people would love how pretentious it is.

I really don't care about pro-parse or anti-parse but the mental gymnastics around anti-parsing is insane sometimes. Asking for anything to be added to the game is not spam. Especially when the OP is putting effort into their posts and replying often.

[Krotoan]

Have you noticed that with your tanking or your healing you get a weightier say on how your party progresses?
People KNOW that another DPS is in the wings just itching for the chance to run stuff, you can be replaced almost instantly as DPS.
People ALSO know that if they ditch a sub-par tank or a iffy healer they'll be waiting 15 minutes if they're LUCKY to replace that slot.
Tank controls the pulls, Healer keeps everyone alive and if they tell you to do something there's the threat of "or you get no healing" behind it.
There IS extra responsibility, ... AND power.

and though there are not hard numbers to quantify if your DPS is bad, an experienced party member in any role will be able to tell if someone isn't pulling their weight. Most tanks will notice things aren't dying quickly enough and can tell if someone is just coasting their 3 button rotation or actually running a good streak, or if their healer is poor they might have to pop one too many cooldowns for every pull. Healers might have to struggle with GCD just to keep the tank alive and also that even with their assistance on DPS, stuff just isn't dying, once again a healer can LOOK and see that one DPS is trying (varied skills, doing positionals if necessary). DPS of course has very little quantifiable hard tells, but they're there. If I'm the other DPS and stuff is taking just a little to long? I can slow my damage.. or change to another target for a little spot checking.

Do I think a hard measurement stick would help? .. some people yes, people who really do want to improve could benefit greatly. However I think that since most people are DPS, and the only thing that the majority of these players have to puff their chests about IS that DPS.. imagine how much more toxic someone could be with hard numbers to throw in peoples faces?

I've experienced elitist jerks giving me a hard time about my "sub-par DPS". No numbers just "where was this buff? you never have it up!" or "THIS IS TAKING FOREVER" . I agree DPS has less social pressure, but once again, I don't think this is HEAVEN for DPS. There are prices for maining a DPS.

[Snow_Princess]

*Notes your forum join date*
*Notes my forum join date*

*Grins*

But seriously, I started in 1.0 and have watched this game grow since then. However, I never seriously mained a DPS until now, and it was the switch from heals to DPS that made me realize just how little pressure is on me (outside of a static, of course).

Can't judge a cover by the book. Sure it will make sense to comment that to me but I post for my sissy since she can't due the the forum name she is stuck with, feels it is a privacy issue.

"I am guessing you simply played off and on then. You have some comments that suggest you do not play a lot. It is that or I am just extremely gifted with observance skills. Being able to gauge how fast or how slow stuff dies is directly related to what actions you do if you want to play as optimal as you can. If things die fast you spam holy, if things die slow, you may want to space out stuns, as you toss out aero III and aero I and prepare use more healing oGCDs and other things like that. So being a bad DPS could never hide from my eyes and having the enmity bars did give another clue on it. You did state a problem before that was.. or seemed wide spread to new healers at 50 nearing the end of 2.0 and wondered if what you said was in more reference to that. Because now people hardly call out healers, like the story of the WHM that did literally zero DPS, not even using assize.

Healers would have more pressure on average, like tanks, same as any game, if people do not pull fast enough people get mad at tank, if people die (even if it is the others fault) they whine and blame healer even if it isn't a healing issue. Was it here? or different thread? I had a very close wipe on lack of DPS and had to say something so they can lower pull size or not pull big like the one we did. In the end, being a good DPS has much tighter timings then Healing, like your thread pointed out on animation lock problems and ping."

[Galgarion]

Parsing isn't bad. They should implement it in the game and keep individual records for players. Then they should reward dps players for playing at or above those records. Gil rewards or cracked clusters and the like. Encourage people to excel, y'know? Maybe use a rating system to keep them locked out of content they aren't ready for, the same way schools keep pre-algebra students from attending trigonometry courses. Not to punish, but to wait until they're prepared.

[Snow_Princess]

Parsing isn't bad. They should implement it in the game and keep individual records for players. Then they should reward dps players for playing at or above those records. Gil rewards or cracked clusters and the like. Encourage people to excel, y'know? Maybe use a rating system to keep them locked out of content they aren't ready for, the same way schools keep pre-algebra students from attending trigonometry courses. Not to punish, but to wait until they're prepared.

I like this but few concerns.

How does DPS@BiS doing max potency rotations improve? I do they keep getting rewards? This may also lead people doing bad on purpose that are on top like that, and feign improvements. Other then that I do love this idea, it is a good start, maybe ill encourage people to try improve over just do acceptable minimum and be lazy.