SCH adlo and succor

[Trunks]

It's no different if you were to spam Cure II on WHM.

WHM can spam Cure II for days, what are you on about? Unless you need to frequently cast Cure IIIs there's little reason to ever eschew the use of Cure II. It's a far cry from the situation SCH is in right now.

[technole]

WHM can spam Cure II for days, what are you on about? Unless you need to frequently cast Cure IIIs there's little reason to ever eschew the use of Cure II. It's a far cry from the situation SCH is in right now.

Level 70 Cure 1 600MP, Cure 2 1200MP vs Cure3 2280. There is little reason to spam a Tier 2 heal, when regen is the best course for MP efficiency unless there is that much of a heal issue. But that was why the media tour build White Mage was terrible to proc lilies, it was encouraging a completely inefficient method for procs.

Scholar doesn't spam an Adlo, ever. I'm sorry, but there are people out there actually playing SCH like a WHM with illogical manual heal choices or know how to use the kit when in a pickle. So they don't keep Aetherflow on cooldown, use Lucid, or use free Eos cooldowns enough, and want to complain they are out of MP? When they really should question why aren't they using half of their kit properly. I've seen it out there, and it's pretty sickening. That's not a job issue this time though, it's just more punishing if you don't play your Aetherflow choices correctly. The revised trait is really good, just you won't see it's light of day if you just sit on that Aetherflow forever.

[Vyriah]

(...)

Just no.

You can't say "but there's bad SCH out there !" just after saying something like "casting two succor per minute is fine". Because it's not. At SB realse, I would get oom from just keeping DoT up and spamming broil 2 on fate boss without using lucid dreaming. And the most costly of them all didn't exist yet.
So first thing first, you don't go oom just because of heal spamming, DPS is what cost MP as SCH. And you're the one saying that DPS matter as SCH, wich is no wrong but only something read and not something you did. Second, casting 2 succor in a minute is bad MP management and will get you oom. There's few reason to cast not only because its cost but also its innefficiency : succor shield are 3k, or 4k at max. Unless you would die for that kind of damage (wich is hard to tell in advance, in case someone else who absolutly never played healer want to argue about this) you will get much more benefit from just using indo after.

Actually, there's only three reason for any SCH ever to not use indo instead of anything else : someone is gonna die to incoming damage, indo is on CD or you don't have eather flow. In all other situation indo > everything. It pretty much works the same way for solo target heal and lustrate, except exco' can be used beforehand. Fairy Union is nothing more than buffed fairy tick that lock fairy skills (wich are better), it can be used as pseudo single target HoT but its main function is making the fairy focus on one target, not keep anything alive (because it won't keep anything alive really long). Rouse + whispering dawn is better than fairy union since fairy will keep healing through it and both will be buffed. Again, you may only have to use it if everything else is on cooldown, something that doesn't happen a lot, knowing its effect is meager.

It may require a pretty strong stuff, but you can heal through dungeon with basically exco (and addlo if the tank is spacing out) on pull, then spaced lustrate between miasma 2 cast. Whispering dawn in advance for moment where eatherflow will be on CD. And that's it folks, everything else serves no purpose. Most boss barely ask any heal but when it does, then it's the same with indo instead of lustrate.
I sometime read that the new SCH is harder to play, but its faceroll is just less intuitive to get.

[CreinCrein]

They're trying to move SCH away from being a mitigation healer to being a healer more focused on OGCD and fairy usage, that's why the MP cost of their GCD heals are so high. When considering the net worth of things like excogitation and fey union to not only your dps but your co-healer's dps it's pretty understandable why adlo and succor are so expensive; there are plenty of occasions where a well placed union or ex has saved my co 3-4 healing GCDs which directly translated into 3-4 stone IVs. That being said I don't really see an issue with MP management while having to push out more shields and rezzes, if anything the only way I'll see myself dry is if I abuse miasma II one too many times for weaving.

[Vyriah]

Except that playstyle wasn't pushed forward until 4.06 and Miasma 2 (wich was added in response to SCH losing too much AoE DPS in dungeon), and the players are the one who did that.

The most plausible reason behing new MP management is lucid dream addition in SCH's kit. There is no other to both up shields MP cost and lower eatherflow MP gain at the same time otherwise.
The new trait is here because a lot of healer players voiced against RNG based traits that makes some skill impossible to plan ahead, all helaers were modified that way (maybe except AST ? I'm not sure, its 68 trait serves no purpose anyway).

[Penthea]

They're trying to move SCH away from being a mitigation healer to being a healer more focused on OGCD and fairy usage, that's why the MP cost of their GCD heals are so high.

I am under the impression that ogcd heals are panic buttons or cds given the fact that the aetherflow mechanic has limited charges. As for fairy usage, yea maybe in an ideal world where Embrace isn't laughably weak and fairies cast commands when told to and not after they finish whatever they're doing. If SE want schs to be more of a raw healer then Physick needs a serious buff, and Emergency Tactics needs to be activated instantly instead of .5 seconds after you activate it (it has a delay quite like dot application, which is very noticeable when you wait to use Bane).

When considering the net worth of things like excogitation and fey union to not only your dps but your co-healer's dps it's pretty understandable why adlo and succor are so expensive

Aldo and Succor are standard healing spells, Excogitation and Fey Union are cds...and they're cds with very specific uses. They're not like Whispering Dawn which is useful in basically any situation with damage. Never mind the amount of ramp up time Fey Union has because you need to charge it. Unless you are fortunate enough to have a lot of trash before a boss you won't have Fey Union on the pull. They do not make up for the obscene mana costs of Aldo and Succor.

That being said I don't really see an issue with MP management while having to push out more shields and rezzes, if anything the only way I'll see myself dry is if I abuse miasma II one too many times for weaving.

Play whm and ast at the same lvl and you'll truly understand how abysmal sch mana efficiency is right now. As sch, if I want to do a respectable amount of dps along with healing my mana goes down quickly. Doing the same as whm...oh god I hover between feeling liberated from having so much mana to play with and being utterly disgusted because my sch needs to be handled so carefully to not go completely dry. Ast has very noticeably better mana efficiency than sch, but the gap isn't as big as it is with whm.

[CreinCrein]

"Abysmal" is an extremely gross over-exaggeration, and I do dabble in whm and ast so I know how their resource management feels. I've cleared the raid tier within the first week and there wasn't a single situation where I was bottoming out or starved on mana unless it was a run with 10+ deaths. This is with 320 tanks being smashed into the ground by literally everything including autos during progression, very liberal healing, and a lot of dps uptime. 80% of your healing is done through Eos and OGCDs if you play to the strengths of the class; healing that is for the most part, completely free. Encounters are also scripted, well placed excogs and unions cash out; I use them liberally and you get charges like crazy if you aggressively use your aetherflow.

[Supersun]

So basically Scholar doesn't have any MP issues when they don't use their MP to heal

[Vyriah]

Well, this is basically how you play SCH currently anyway.

[CreinCrein]

I literally just said I went through progression without many mana issues healing liberally while pushing dps and that's what you got from it? Anyways, regardless it is how you play the class optimally and has remained so since time.