Isn't playing WHM optimally going completely against what SE wants healers to be?

[Elamys]

I haven't played WoW since Pandaria, but the times mentioned thus far (LK, Cataclysm) and BC (Best tier), every boss encounter was a bag of tricks used based on certain criteria. That criteria could be RNG based, party position based, etc. The mechanics are not that different from FF14, but the way they are chosen and the order they are used are what changes from encounter to encounter. The Raid Party in WoW must adjust to the mechanics that come out, not pre-plan around them (The Spreadsheet comment)

Pandaria was my favorite expansion, and the expansion where I finally got into more challenging healing (I had always mained shadow). I feel that damage, in Mists and Warlords, was not very predictable. You had plenty of times where you could plan for a big burst of damage, of course, but there was almost always something to do. Challenge Modes in Mists were some of my favorite times playing the game, and they were incredibly punishing. I never wasn't healing, except maybe on bosses. In this game, the only time there's "unexpected" damage is if a DPS stands in something and I wasn't watching him.

Here's what's interesting about Holy priest, my main healer, during MoP/WoD (but especially Mists): It could do an enormous amount of damage, more than any healer, including discipline, the DPS healer, if specced properly. It was not uncommon for me to go into LFR and be in the top 3 DPS. When we were doing our CMs (I did several sets, including 2 entire sets as priest), I went for the highest DPS I could, because holy was the weakest healer, and it was considered to basically be nerfing yourself if you went in with a holy priest instead of discipline, but the DPS I could put out really helped make a difference. My second set I did as discipline, and our clear times were noticeably slower.

I would kill to see something that demanding in this game, where DPSing as a healer is a meaningful choice, not just a byproduct of having nothing to do.

Note: I'm on a shitload of painkillers right now, so sorry if anything I'm saying doesn't make sense percocet is amazing

[gti443]

I haven't played WoW since Pandaria, but the times mentioned thus far (LK, Cataclysm) and BC (Best tier), every boss encounter was a bag of tricks used based on certain criteria. That criteria could be RNG based, party position based, etc. The mechanics are not that different from FF14, but the way they are chosen and the order they are used are what changes from encounter to encounter. The Raid Party in WoW must adjust to the mechanics that come out, not pre-plan around them (The Spreadsheet comment)

40 man raiding wasn't for me so I quit from BWL until maybe halfway into LK but... could you give me some examples? Are you talking about stuff like... I dunno, those spores on Festergut or whatever in ICC? IIRC those were random but you still set collapse points in advance.

What was the healing check fight in ICC, that dragon you had to heal? Dreamwalker. I mean I guess they could plop us down an NPC to heal in FF (Savage/EX Aery?) to keep us busy but... I dunno, I liked healing in WoW but I just do not remember WoW's healing checks that fondly.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

It's not an all or nothing thing. I'm not saying the devs want healers to never DPS, nor am I saying that healers SHOULD never DPS. They say entire dungeons in that quote, it's clear they don't want healers to DPS the entire time, but that doesn't give us an exact number. I'm not taking it out of context at all. I'm trying to keep it WITHIN the context of the original quote, which is largely a case of "well, we don't like healer DPS that much, but we accept it's a part of the game right now, but changes have/may come in the future." That's all.

I don't want them to remove healer DPS entirely unless it somehow becomes that healers have to constantly heal. I don't like standing idle.

Perhaps a better phrasing of it would be you want healer DPS to be more a reward/bonus for higher level players who are optimizing and/or outgearing content compared to something mandatory? Because that is more or less my stance. While I enjoy healing in this game, my absolute favourite times doing so is through new expansion dungeons with lower tier gear. Bardam's Mettle in full Shire hurts to heal. Even with a few upgrades, I had to work healing and DPSing through Doma. Unfortunately, those moments are few and far in between since the game centers its entire damage phases through predictable script mechanics. Honestly, the issue has long been the dev's refusal to make the game harder despite their insistence on closing the skill gap. I wish we had more options as healers or even some sort of combo system or ability to chain healing; something unique. With how easy many things have become in Stormblood though, I doubt that ever happens.

[Elamys]

Perhaps a better phrasing of it would be you want healer DPS to be more a reward/bonus for higher level players who are optimizing and/or outgearing content compared to something mandatory?

Yes, that's pretty much what I'm trying to get at. I have a hard time expressing what I mean sometimes. I just wish that healer DPS wasn't a thing solely because there's nothing to do.

[Ksenia]

Savage Raid level healing doesn't rely on healers fixing errors. It's all one shot, wipe based mechanics and a White Mage is going to have MP surplus that allows them to damage. They are usually the first to hit the floor anyway, if someone didn't follow protocol and a wipe is coming. I was actually doing Whm roulette daily when I came back because I can't stand that system. Then got Great Gubal 4 days in a row and stopped. The point being, the game needs both versions of White Mage because not everyone is doing end game exclusive.

[Kabooa]

I dunno, I liked healing in WoW but I just do not remember WoW's healing checks that fondly.

Specific mechanics are a bit difficult for me to remember, and admittedly, as a Paladin when healing, I was generally on cleanse or Tank duty.

What I do remember is that 'healing' checks in WoW, BC Era, generally revolved around a specific mechanic that had to be handled / removed, or just the boss entering a 10-15 second frenzy and would just pummel the tank into the ground. Not much room to breath in most cases, but that's generally how I liked my encounters. A large stream of information to parse and deal with which just isn't possible with FF14's interface. Or Default WoW's for that matter. (GRID was the best)

[Trunks]

The problem is that healing is way too powerful. This necessitates that damage output be absolutely bonkers to have any meaningful chance of killing anyone: see the chain-casting of heavy AOEs in OV1S. That damage is trivial to WHM; a reminder here that Charybidis EMPTIES YOUR HP BAR. You can have everyone back to full in the time it takes the boss to finish the next cast. Once you get the rhythm of a fight down -- they are all 100% scripted and predictable -- the only thing that can really kill people is their own failure. How can there ever be a challenge? If there's no challenge, you can either stop pushing your buttons or DPS.

They need to stop designing these encounters with WTFOMGINSANE damage bursts and make healing a fight against attrition rather than a fight to stay awake.

[Destatiredux]

Edit incoming

[Destatiredux]

Just because healer DPS isn't considered when everyone has relevant gear and plays perfectly doesn't mean they don't expect you to. Healer =/= Pacifist

Actually I'd like to counter this particular point. During the Media Tour Mr. Happy had the opportunity to interview Yoshi on this particular subject among others, wherein Yoshi P stated specifically that he wanted to reinforce to players that, "I firmly believe that [healer dps] shouldn't be mandatory and we DO NOT have the expectation for them to dps." It is absolutely not the intention of the devs to expect dps from healers in this game, and have only stated that dpsing as a healer should be left up to the healer in question in any given situation (such as their example where while in cutting edge progression if a team does not have the proper dps due to too low an ilvl, after party discussion a healer might help with dps).

[gti443]

What I do remember is that 'healing' checks in WoW, BC Era, generally revolved around a specific mechanic that had to be handled / removed, or just the boss entering a 10-15 second frenzy and would just pummel the tank into the ground.

Hmm... you could heal through them to a point but those "frenzy" moves were intended more as tank gear checks; I'm talking about HPS races. If you couldn't pump out enough HPS to get through the debuff on Deathwing... sucked to be you; time for your raid team to get you more gear. On Dreamwalker you needed to spam heals on the NPC dragon and still heal the raid through a gauntlet while floating around the room collecting orbs occasionally. There was an HPS check pretty much every tier from what I remember.

Maybe WoW has found a way around HPS races but to me they're part and parcel of embracing the "pure healing" playstyle and I dunno how I feel about mechanics like that making their way into FF.