[Spoilers, kind of] Characters who are completely different between JP/ENG

[Clawbriar]

Hypertuned Grynewaht's Japanese cutscene dialogue is significantly different to his English counterpart. The Japanese dialogue comes across as him being near-lobotomised instead of the Doom Marine-esque screamer he is in English.

[Kosmos992k]

Hypertuned Grynewaht's Japanese cutscene dialogue is significantly different to his English counterpart. The Japanese dialogue comes across as him being near-lobotomised instead of the Doom Marine-esque screamer he is in English.

I thought he already was the victim of a near fatal lobotomy as it was, at least he always seems to be suitably stupid and buffoonish which makes me really doubt the empire's quality control on their armed forces. Then again I play with Japanese audio and English subtitles. I frequently note significant differences in dialog between what's said an what's in the captions - and that's without being a fluent speaker of Japanese.

But it seems that thanks to being more vague with his motive, that this created some believe that he might not be nice to us.

At least thats how I remember it here in the forum, when some where surprised that he was just simply testing us.

I remember reading the direct translation from Japanese to English of those scenes and comparing it against the English transcript from the NA version. Everyone I have shown it to agrees that the direct translation is clearer and that the English version is very difficult to understand by comparison with the direct translation. Most think that the NA English version is actually misleading and makes the player think that what's going on is the opposite to what is really happening. The French and German dialog is (if I remember correctly) created from a direct Japanese to English translation and avoids the flavor text added to the NA localization, and is thus much clearer.

[Emstidor]

I remember reading the direct translation from Japanese to English of those scenes and comparing it against the English transcript from the NA version. Everyone I have shown it to agrees that the direct translation is clearer and that the English version is very difficult to understand by comparison with the direct translation. Most think that the NA English version is actually misleading and makes the player think that what's going on is the opposite to what is really happening. The French and German dialog is (if I remember correctly) created from a direct Japanese to English translation and avoids the flavor text added to the NA localization, and is thus much clearer.

Whereas I find the provided examples upthread of "direct" translation to be dry, lifeless, and sometimes even boring, so I'm happy with the direction they currently take in localization.

[Kosmos992k]

Whereas I find the provided examples upthread of "direct" translation to be dry, lifeless, and sometimes even boring, so I'm happy with the direction they currently take in localization.

Are they the direct translations used by SE, or the direct translations provided by Google or some anonymous player who claims to speak Japanese? A decent direct translation retains the meaning and mood of the original dialog without pandering to the localization niceties of recreating idioms and other colorful expressions in the target culture and language. I don't find translations to be dry or lifeless, just occasionally there will be a reference or cultural trope that I don't quite get.

This is a massive overstatement, and nothing they have ever said would point to the English localization team having even remotely an equal part in crafting the story of the game. Koji posted one thing talking about how they have more involvement than most localization teams, being called on to do things like create the dragons' language and most of the player titles that get used across versions, and for some reason a bunch of people took that and ran with it. For everything they help contribute there are 10 other examples of things they've had to double back on and change because they overdid localizing them.

The Japanese version is the original, they write it first, and then the localization teams, including the English one, localize it for their audiences.

The English localization team does have input into the lore, but you are correct that the Japanese version is the primary version. If I remember correctly (and it's been a while since I dug up all of the information on this), the Japanese script is translated into English preserving the original intent and mood of the dialogue, along with all the Japanese idiom and cultural references. That original translation is where the localization team gets a chance to provide feed back into the Japanese version. When the final script is completed, the translation becomes the 'master version' of the script. That master is then used to create the foreign language versions (French, German, etc...) of the game script, and the full localization in English is also created.

This is where the Localization team can take some liberties with the original as they transfer idiom and cultural references into something relevant to English players. It's also where Dragon speak went from the more direct to the obtuse and flowery. It's also where we must needs interpret the intent of the script; mayhap the characters are a little chagrined by their odd phrasing at this point - or in other words this is where all the ridiculous "olde English" crap that people love to make fun of, is thrown into the mix.

I feel that too much latitude is given and taken by the localization team at this stage. A good translation preserves the original content and maintains the emotion of the original. A localization tries to make the script feel like it was created in the local language, including cultural reference and idiom. An overdone localization extends that further applying an entirely new cultural filter to add flavor or character to the script taking it 3 steps beyond the original, two steps past the translation and a step beyond a straight localization. I prefer a good translation to a localization. I prefer a good localization to one that attempts to get creative with things.

With as much work, time, effort and creativity as Koji Fox and his team put into the game I will give them major Kudos, but at the same time I will continue to beg them to steer clear of the creative localization and stick more closely to the original script. Otherwise we are not all playing the same game. All players in FFXIV should have the same understanding of the events and dialog as it unfolds. That hasn't always been the case. If the game were a solo game then the creative localization would be very much more appreciated because it doesn't matter if there are a few differences here an there, common experience and understanding is not needed.

But in an MMORPG we need a common experience; all players should be experiencing the same game, plot and dialog. That means less creativity in localizing the game. To be honest I would prefer a good translation over localization. To me a good translation works by translating the meaning and intent of the words, not simply by doing a literal translation, and not by changing things.

[Nestama]

But in an MMORPG we need a common experience; all players should be experiencing the same game, plot and dialog. That means less creativity in localizing the game. To be honest I would prefer a good translation over localization. To me a good translation works by translating the meaning and intent of the words, not simply by doing a literal translation, and not by changing things.

And we technically are. Haurchefant is pretty much the only time I believe the localisation team has admitted they made a mistake (as his personality is different between JP and EN, FR, DE) and apologised. Ever since, they now work more closely with the scenario and cutscene teams, which implies that they're given the okay with what they do.

Midgardsormr was also explained.

[Kosmos992k]

And we technically are. Haurchefant is pretty much the only time I believe the localisation team has admitted they made a mistake (as his personality is different between JP and EN, FR, DE) and apologised. Ever since, they now work more closely with the scenario and cutscene teams, which implies that they're given the okay with what they do.

Midgardsormr was also explained.

Yes, there were mistakes with Haurchefant, they had no choice but to apologize when it became clear that they acted without the blessing of Yoshi-P.

No, I disagree with you completely on Midgardsormr. The explanation of Midgardsormr was nothing more than rationalization to cover and justify a mistake that altered the sense and meaning of the scenes and dialog and confused many players.

Midgardsormr is simply the most obvious example of excessive 'creativity' in the localization work that Koji Fox and his team do. As I said, I will give them plenty of Kudos for the work that they do the vast majority of which is excellent. But in fairness I will also happily point out the times when they deserve a rotten tomato or two.

One thing about the Dragonspeak excuse. That covers the style of speech that Dragons use, but it did not explain why the scene in the English version was so ambiguous and open to easy misunderstanding. I never understood that scene until I looked up the Japanese version. My wife and son were similarly confused by it and thought that Midgardsormr was acting against us as an enemy. Thankfully I was able to clarify it for them since I'd already researched it. That kind of nonsense is indefensible.