Why healing is broken and terrible, and how to fix it...

[Jybril]

He lost me at comparing this games healing to WoW which I do not play.
So OP wants healing to be done like WoW? Well, go play WoW? I hate to say it but come on.
Healing isn't broken OP. If people DPS more than they heal WHILE everyone is good on HP
then they're damn good healers then.

[Naunet]

Even looking at Wildstar, which follows similar raid schematics to FFXIV/WoW...their top healers are doing about 1/10th the DPS of their top DPS - half of what we're doing here. And that's Redmoon Terror, a raid that guilds have had on farm for a while because Wildstar has such infrequent content updates due to its low population. (It came out almost exactly a year ago, to wit.)

I bet a lot of those healers are also spellslingers using dual fire, which does both damage and healing and becomes a very useful spell once you obtain the slinger healing RMT rune set. I know that my only damage ability on my esper is Pyrokinetic Flame (a buff spell that attaches to an enemy, creates an aoe damage field around it, and also increases the assault power of those hitting the enemy) and if I feel like it, right clicking the mob. I might be able to do about 1-1.5k dps like this. Meanwhile comparably geared dps can pull upwards of 25-30k dps.

I wish you were wrong about your last paragraph. I hate their stance of draining all the challenge out of this game. I also disagree with the hypothetical that requiring healers to heal more instead of dpsing somehow makes it more difficult. IMO it just makes it more engaging. If I were playing Chloromancer or Discipline Priest, where dealing damage is a key component of my healing, then that would be one thing... but spamming one nuke and a dot spell does not equate to compelling gameplay.

[RichardButte]

That is a lack of experience issue, sorry.

When the DPS perform immaculately for the first two bosses so I feel comfortable DPSing, then they suddenly eat every other AoE on the last boss, what "experience" could've helped there?

I read the situation for what it appeared to be and acted accordingly, trying to get the boss down ASAP because I thought I was with a wholly competent group due to how well they played.

It doesn't happen often, but it's still annoying when it does happen, and when it DOESN'T happen, it's equally annoying because I rolled a healer but spend nearly all my time dealing damage instead.

Also for the other person you are replying to, no it is not broken, it is just a different style.

Here's the thing...

If RDM was introduced to the game as a DPS, yet was more effective as a healer than as a DPS (and as a result were asked to spend 80% of their time healing instead of dealing damage), RDMs would scream bloody murder, and rightfully so. The DPS forums would be on FIRE with threads saying, "This class says it's a DPS! Why am I a healer?!"

Meanwhile, healers have been doing more DPS than healing since at least 2.0, and no one bats an eyelash.

It'd be one thing if there was a class that healed THROUGH DPS (like two of WoW's healers do) and leveling the class that did that was a choice a player made, but all three healing classes run into the same issue: there's just not much healing that needs to be done (especially when running in a static where people will typically not get hit).

If you don't want to call it "broken", okay, but there are less kind ways of putting it, like how calling these classes "healers" is a bald-faced lie when they spend far more time dealing damage than healing.

If you're a player like me who enjoys playing a healer because you like actual healing, you're SoL in XIV, and I'm not sure why more people aren't at least saying, "Yeah, I it'd be nice to feel like I was doing more in my actual PRIMARY role..."

So OP wants healing to be done like WoW? Well, go play WoW?

I want healing in FFXIV to be as fun and engaging as DPSing in FFXIV.

And no, that's not an unreasonable request.

[Snow_Princess]

The experience issue in that story is being able to adjust in a fluid matter. However a few things with this, 1. if you are handing our raises left and right you will run out of mp, it is 3600 per cast. At that point the only healer able carry that to extent is whm with the use of thin air raises and that is pretty much 2 raises. It will help to tell me what DF your talking about but atthe end of the day, you cannot make changes to a game because people played badly during an a short period of time. You also got to understand, people's understanding of the different bosses differ, like I still have problems with that port and star boss and have problems with those mechanics while doing my healing. I hate that boss with a passion.

For "Meanwhile, healers have been doing more DPS than healing since at least 2.0, and no one bats an eyelash." Again.. it depends what you talking about, did you play late 2.0 as being a fresh 50? it was PURE HELL! even if you 100% heal, the pulls people did was insane and people would wipe over and over because they did not respect that your gear level was not high enough to deal with it. (then kick you over it) People do not even do those pulls today, and that part of FFXIV history is why DFs have the gates they do.

The thing I worry about is this as well, if you make the game require too much healing, a high number would not be able to handle it. You can see this when you have to adjust pull sizes or carry healers as a healer in 2 healer content like deltascape. So you have to look at the big picture and wonder, will healing be too hard for people nad we have LESS healers queuing or will there be more healers because they do not have to worry about DPS as much? Another thing you got to consider is the skill gaps of healers, tanks , and DPS. If healers are not capable of doing DPS, why should we sit in a DF that takes 30 mins because of low skilled DPS? having respectable DPS as a healer helps move things, but honestly I love to see some small potency increases because losing cleric took away too much DPS. Runs move too slow with bad DPS.

"RDMs would scream bloody murder, and rightfully so. The DPS forums would be on FIRE with threads saying, "This class says it's a DPS! Why am I a healer?!"

Yeah that pretty much happened in FFXI though.

So in the end I need ask this, why should healing be the thing that changes because of big skill gaps of DPS and tanks? This is not a healing issue outside not agreeing with the style of high down time > burst healing, your main issue is more inline with the skill gaps DPS and tanks have. If you have 2 good dps and a good tank you will hardly do any healing unless they do bigger then average pulls, because the tank will be able to migrate damage while things die too fast for the tank to take significant damage.

There is also a conflict of prospective here. For me being a healer means best way to support the group, keeping them up, keep things moving. When there is no healing to be done, I dps, means less healing and stuff dies faster, I helped the group more then just standing there.

[hydralus]

I want healing in FFXIV to be as fun and engaging as DPSing in FFXIV.

And no, that's not an unreasonable request.

It kinda is, when 'fun' and 'engaging' is just based off what you feel and not some measurable metric. The idea of just needing to 'heal more than you DPS' sounds like an asinine metric for what would satisfy you on how a role should play out.

And as suggested, if WoW does it the way you like, maybe go play that and don't try to change a game that does it different. Variety is nice.

[Kazrah]

To everyone bickering that your side of the argument is the correct side of the argument, you need to settle down and listen for a while. Understanding is the difference between listening and witnessing, and you all aren't doing it. (I mean some are, but don't just assume you are, take a step back and look at yourself you know)

Way ahead of you, and really I think the OP just wants to play another game. It's a different system, which is why I keep saying to the OP that it's okay not to be good at healing in this game compared to healing in some other game. It's also a system that works with how combat works in the game, so trying to change how healing works would first mean changing how combat works overall in the game. From this perspective, the OP really wants a different game altogether.

Since WoW is being used as an example, I can do that too. In fact, after over a decade in WoW, their system is starting to become more and more like FFXIV, where not only are healers dps'ing more often, but some even healing in dps specs (this happened A LOT when I was tanking). The only difference as far as I can see with WoW's healing compared to FFXIV's healing is that healing in WoW no longer has the added challenge of resource management. To translate for those reading this who haven't played WoW, this would mean that healing in WoW is so mind-numbing that dungeon groups have healers switching to Red Mage just so they can do more damage as Vercure and tank self-healing provides more than enough to get the group through.

Could there be adjustments to the healing system? Perhaps, but not without completely overhauling how combat works entirely, and that's something that players like the OP need to face. Just because it's a disagreeable system does not by any means make it a broken system. Not to mention that this whole argument doesn't really address an actual issue of healing, being that of what healers should be expected to do.

[Penthea]

He lost me at comparing this games healing to WoW which I do not play.
So OP wants healing to be done like WoW?

Yea if that happens I'll shelf healing in FF. I left WoW behind for many reasons and healing was one of them. The healing system in FF is far from perfect but I much prefer it to WoW.

Honestly the most broken thing about healing in FF is player attitude towards it. Some players have this silly fantasy that healers can pump out huge dps and huge hps at the same time. I have seen healers get scolded for not dpsing enough when a chain pulling tank needed spam healing. We can't do max dps and hps simultaneously. Pick one.

[RichardButte]

The reality is left as if you don't know whether a group is going to do well or not, you cannot effectively plan around it. A DPS can simply DPS. A tank can simply tank. Both of these do their jobs simply by doing what they'd be doing regardless, but we can't exactly have healers just mass party healing simply by attacking.

Agreed, and it's the "rhythm" of how healing works that ultimately makes for this "feast or famine" feeling, leaving us to spend most of our time doing something not in our job description.

Honestly I like the OP's ideas to fix this. Are they the right solutions? I'm not here to tell you that. What is being discussed here isn't about balance, or the healers role in a fight, but rather the endless debate between players about what a healer should be doing at any given time.

I just want as many buttons to push as a DPS has, and with the same regularity.

What's strange is that the DPS classes (and to a lesser extent the tanks) are very cleverly designed, with a solid flow, rotation, and encounter balance that always gives them something to do at any given point.

Healers feel like they were an afterthought in comparison. Even the POTENCY of heals feels like it's amped through the roof just to get those annoying HP bars filled up so we can get back to DPSing. :\

[Snow_Princess]

Way ahead of you, and really I think the OP just wants to play another game. It's a different system, which is why I keep saying to the OP that it's okay not to be good at healing in this game compared to healing in some other game. It's also a system that works with how combat works in the game, so trying to change how healing workswould first mean changing how combat works overall in the game. From this perspective, the OP really wants a different game altogether.

Since WoW is being used as an example, I can do that too. In fact, after over a decade in WoW, their system is starting to become more and more like FFXIV, where not only are healers dps'ing more often, but some even healing in dps specs (this happened A LOT when I was tanking). The only difference as far as I can see with WoW's healing compared to FFXIV's healing is that healing in WoW no longer has the added challenge of resource management. To translate for those reading this who haven't played WoW, this would mean that healing in WoW is so mind-numbing that dungeon groups have healers switching to Red Mage just so they can do more damage as Vercure and tank self-healing provides more than enough to get the group through.

Could there be adjustments to the healing system? Perhaps, but not without completely overhauling how combat works entirely, and that's something that players like the OP need to face. Just because it's a disagreeable system does not by any means make it a broken system. Not to mention that this whole argument doesn't really address an actual issue of healing, being that of what healers should be expected to do.

Yes you can heal in dps specs if you know what you are doing and overgeared. There was a time my sissy got me to over gear at level 68? I think it was. I was tank and she was healer. She would queue as her healer spec, enter, change in DPS, and not only kept us alive, but did a huge amount more DPS then the rest of us, it was insane. Very fun in pvp too, broken af, but fun, doesn't last long because of the exp gains, but it is something different to experience being invincible for a bit. She healed as an elemental shaman for a bit (um.. I guess it would be like healing as a BLM with quicker cast times, for FFXIV)....

"elemental shamans pretty much had one heal, it would be more like RDM having cure II power, so it would be passable if the setup was allowed here with that kind of heal potency"

Agreed, and it's the "rhythm" of how healing works that ultimately makes for this "feast or famine" feeling, leaving us to spend most of our time doing something not in our job description.



I just want as many buttons to push as a DPS has, and with the same regularity.

What's strange is that the DPS classes (and to a lesser extent the tanks) are very cleverly designed, with a solid flow, rotation, and encounter balance that always gives them something to do at any given point.

Healers feel like they were an afterthought in comparison. Even the POTENCY of heals feels like it's amped through the roof just to get those annoying HP bars filled up so we can get back to DPSing. :\

"No thanks, I do not want healing rotations like DPS rotations. If that was the case, people will die just because of ogcd clipping issues like what you shown. The servers/game is too slow for such a thing and will leave frustrations without any leeway in timings

If you want super tight rotations give ninja a try. Also I already addressed ' leaving us to spend most of our time doing something not in our job description.' I need to ask something, why is the complaints always revolve around if healers should dps or not and not tanks? If a tank was a tank then it would just have agro holding rotations without doing DPS???? "

[Penthea]

I just want as many buttons to push as a DPS has, and with the same regularity.

But you can if you dps during healing downtime. Most healers go by ABC: always be casting. It's rare when all they can do is stand around.