Black Mage Sanctuary - A Guide to DPS

[Realfoxy]

Huh. After 4.05 I can fit procs/Foul fine in AF, actually.
It's either your latency or your spell speed failing you.

Yeah, that might be it. I feel like I have to burn swift / triple cast if I want to fit procs/foul into the 4.0 rotation, but you're right that it might just be latency + SS. Trying to make 4.05 work on 200ms ping is....challenging.

[Realfoxy]

Not sure what you mean. Foul is used during umbral phase along with t3, there's more than enough time to fit it in. If its not ready yet just cast single t3 and switch back to astral, or if mana tick is a issuea add b4 on top of that.

Hmmm I might be confused. I'm talking about 3F4 > F1 > 3F4 > B3 > T3 > B4

Are you referring to the 5F4 rotation that doesn't need umbral hearts?

[Gwaeron89]

Hmmm I might be confused. I'm talking about 3F4 > F1 > 3F4 > B3 > T3 > B4

Are you referring to the 5F4 rotation that doesn't need umbral hearts?

Yeah i mean 5xf4 rotation (which is techically 4.05 rotation because 4.0 rotation was 4xf4). There's no really any reason to use b4 outside of opener or when foul is on cd during umbral phase but mana is not ticking fast enough to just cast single t3 and switch.

[prophecy4seen]

There's no really any reason to use b4 outside of opener or when foul is on cd during umbral phase but mana is not ticking fast enough to just cast single t3 and switch.

Do you mean that its a gain to not cast Bliz 4 and wait for a slow manatick in the event that you have no foul or thunder cloud proc? additonally.. There are alot of occasions when you may have foul but you dont have thunder cloud. If you use Foul first then thunder 3. you run the risk of entering astral with slightly too little mana to cast the final F4

[Gwaeron89]

Do you mean that its a gain to not cast Bliz 4 and wait for a slow manatick in the event that you have no foul or thunder cloud proc?

No i mean its worth casting b4 instead of waiting for mana tick to get full mana for astral phase if foul is on cd during umbral. It shouldn't happen too often though.
And when using 5xf4 rotation there's usually no mana left to cast anythnig requiring mana after switching to umbral. So in that case the priority is - casting thundercloud first then foul -> casting foul fist then t3 -> waiting for manatick and hardcasting t3 then foul. If foul is on cd replacing it with b4 may be an option to avoid situations where mana is not fully restored during astral. I hope you understand what i mean.

additonally.. There are alot of occasions when you may have foul but you dont have thunder cloud. If you use Foul first then thunder 3. you run the risk of entering astral with slightly too little mana to cast the final F4

I don't think it can be 100% avoided, unless you want to wait for manatick to hardcast t3 before foul. I just accept it as is and cast 4 f4 during astral in that case.
Alternatively, if convert is not on cd, it can be used to change 4xf4 into 6xf4 without wasting mana.

[Lilyth]

I don't think it can be 100% avoided, unless you want to wait for manatick to hardcast t3 before foul. I just accept it as is and cast 4 f4 during astral in that case.
Alternatively, if convert is not on cd, it can be used to change 4xf4 into 6xf4 without wasting mana.

Never do 4xF4s. Like, ever. Going way overheel trying to only go for 5xF4s can lead you to this situation which is a huge dps loss. Numerically, 4xF4s is only a slight PPS loss compared to casting B4 with 6xF4s, however, a rotation with only 4xF4s is too short. You'll have a considerable high chance of getting back to UI with no Foul and having to wait for a mana tick which means standing around for possibly 3 whole seconds doing nothing. If you are unsure whether or not you'll get a mana tick after casting Thunder III, go the safe route and cast B4. B4 is higher PPS than the previous scenario (4xF4s) and has the added benefit of giving more time for your gauge to fill since the rotation is 2-3 GCDs longer. A more filled gauge means you can do more 5xF4s rotations which is your goal. Also with enough practice you can predict like 95% of the time if you are getting the tic or not, but this will vary with your current spell speed though.

[Realfoxy]

OK, so if I get this straight, the optimal strat is this:

5F4 > B3 > T3 > foul > F3 > repeat

Then do B4 into 6F4 on occasion to ensure that I can always foul.

[prophecy4seen]

Never do 4xF4s. Numerically, 4xF4s is only a slight PPS loss compared to casting B4 with 6xF4s, however, a rotation with only 4xF4s is too short. You'll have a considerable high chance of getting back to UI with no Foul and having to wait for a mana tick which means standing around for possibly 3 whole seconds doing nothing. If you are unsure whether or not you'll get a mana tick after casting Thunder III, go the safe route and cast B4. B4 is higher PPS than the previous scenario (4xF4s) and has the added benefit of giving more time for your gauge to fill since the rotation is 2-3 GCDs longer. A more filled gauge means you can do more 5xF4s rotations which is your goal. Also with enough practice you can predict like 95% of the time if you are getting the tic or not, but this will vary with your current spell speed though.

I see. how about sharpcast/triple cast application here? Currently i do 5xf4 but i would return to the 6xf4 whenever i know triplecast and sharpcast are off CD. Is this optimal? i have been wondering if there is a decent way to use sharpcast with thunder3 to ensure a tc proc for the next umbral rotation

[Gwaeron89]

Also with enough practice you can predict like 95% of the time if you are getting the tic or not, but this will vary with your current spell speed though.

This, yes. And usually when this happens i have convert to cover for it. Convert is pointless with 5xf4 rotation because theres not enough mana left to cast b3 after two additional f4. And honestly i never had 3 second doing nothing situations unless you have to wait for really bad manatcik with zero mana and zero procs left. There's always something to cast, just adapt your rotation depending on situation.

[Finkledoodoo]

Ok, so here is what I have from the last few pages:

f4x5>b4>f4x4
only one opener now, the b4 opener
Only b4 when you kno you won't get a tick before f3 casts.
BiS is not figured out yet.
SpS>DH>Crit>Det

Questions:

What is the answer to the argument: 4.x is longer, so the t3p will push 4.x dps passed the f4x5 rotation? And the other argument I read was that f4x5 was too short which would cause a loss from lack of foul procs... I know for sure that f4x4 is too short and caused me all types of problems, so I all i care about are the previous 2 questions...

What number of mobs do we switch to AoE? Should we start at 2 mobs and do the f4 f4 flare flare rotation or should we single rotation up to 3 mobs like 2.x? Or should we single up to 5 mobs like 3.x?

BiS is beyond me atm. Can somebody point me to a thread where I can learn about it?