Dear Healers who don't DPS

[Avatre]

Right, but this discussion wasn't really about Savage to begin with. It's just the idea if the fights are overall designed with the intent of healers to DPS, and they aren't. If your group needs the healer DPS to clear, by all means they should be DPSing, but that's a different animal than DF, where 99% of the "why aren't my healers DPSing!!!" complaints come from.

I had that thought when I did my EX rou last night(Ala Mhigo), healer was a WHM and didn't need to heal the PLD all that much(more had to heal us DPS as we were taking agro even using the Diversion/Lucid/whatnot every time we could...but that's neither here nor there) but didn't DPS. We were still ripping things apart rather quickly, so it didn't faze any of us(there was no chat aside from the initial hi from me, then a little later the healer). I'm not sure if it's just the groups people have bad luck with, but I almost never see someone complain about the healer DPSing(or lack there of).

[Sebazy]

Right, but this discussion wasn't really about Savage to begin with.

There isn't really an debate to be had outside of savage content tho. The EX primals are typically tuned to the min ilvl now and have reasonably generous enrage timers, whereas story content and dungeons are tuned to the point where half the group can typically carry the run. Healer DPS is definitely a luxury that the majority appreciates, but it's pretty hard to make any case that suggests it's flat out required either by design or even ineptitude from the rest of the group. I certainly don't disagree with you there <3

Otherwise ya, Taika has it covered above.

[Ordoric]

what the hell is the hard concept of team work people

[Lyrai_Celestine]

As above, look at more than just the raw DPS numbers, if the WHM is carrying the healing then the SCH may need to help more for the WHM to start pushing out more DPS. Sometimes you may need to get your tanks to play a little more cautiously to help things overall as well.

Ah yes. I'm the Main Tank PLD, and I'm the leader of my own static. I decided to use a parser for O2S on the 2nd clear. Continuing from where I left off, the WHM did 48% of healing, SCH did 45% of healing. I decided to stay in Sword Oath for the whole duration of the fight (with proper CD usage) and actually get to win with less than 10 seconds to enrage. So it was definitely pretty close.

Lastly, it's do keep in mind that by pressuring them to do more DPS, you'll likely be upsetting and shifting their flow of play. If your group is hitting enrage and needs the extra DPS then it's something that'll need to be done.

I am aware of this, and I experienced myself how daunting it is to alter how you play a class. This is why I asked to ask for help in the forums. I don't want to upset my healers' flow that already works for them. I wanted to find the best way to approach this matter.

If they themselves want to try to push a bit more DPS, suggest they focus on getting into the habit of maintaining dots.

Dear healers who don't DPS. Read this. I hope my healers keep improving... even if it's little, I will appreciate their efforts!

Looks like you've got the right idea on it tho, good luck with O3, it's fantastic encounter imo.

Many thanks! My static's about to start practicing O3S after clearing O1S and O2S in one day on the 2nd week, so I think I'll just shelf this healer DPS problem for later.

My rule of thumb with my group is "mechanics first, DPS second". You won't even get to enrage if everyone is dying left, right, and center to mechanics. However, with understanding of the mechanics you'll also have an understanding of the best ways to optimize for DPS and healing and coordinating mechanics in such a way to minimize DPS loss as best as you can.

Certainly! For O2S, me (MT) and my OT have both positioned the boss in the most optimal position (within melee range from the center) and this has helped a lot in minimizing DPS loss! It's also become my rule of thumb for when to use parser, being "I won't use parser until we clear for the first time."

Minimize overheal and maximize healing CDs to meet the healing checks then spend the rest of the time burning GCDs for DPS to help the group meet the DPS check. You can still work within the confines of the WHM healing > SCH healing, you just need to minimize "waste" as best as you can.

Got it. I will tell the healers just that as a way to improve. Each week I'll be parsing and watching their improvements as they (hopefully) take O1S and O2S as second nature.

[MoarLegion]

In S/NES Era final fantasies where you had one character be a dedicated healer, you didn't just have them stand there for a turn when healing wasn't needed.

Why are we treating this game any different?

[Cynfael]

I had that thought when I did my EX rou last night(Ala Mhigo), healer was a WHM and didn't need to heal the PLD all that much(more had to heal us DPS as we were taking agro even using the Diversion/Lucid/whatnot every time we could...but that's neither here nor there) but didn't DPS. We were still ripping things apart rather quickly, so it didn't faze any of us(there was no chat aside from the initial hi from me, then a little later the healer). I'm not sure if it's just the groups people have bad luck with, but I almost never see someone complain about the healer DPSing(or lack there of).

Personally I don't care much whether it's "required" or not; I just don't understand the mentality behind players standing around doing nothing while healing isn't necessary.

Healer is probably the only role for which some players think it's acceptable not to maximize GCDs. Even if a tank is slacking and just phoning it in with 100% tank stance and enmity combo, they are doing more than an idle healer.

While I find it disappointing when healers don't so much as attempt to DPS in routine situations, I'm usually giving them benefit of the doubt that they are inexperienced. In the event that they truly are just lazy and doing nothing but casting a heal every 5-10 seconds is so taxing, I really don't want them trying to type at the same time.

[Elamys]

It doesn't matter if the fights are designed to require healer DPS or not. Healers, as all other party members, should do their best to be effective team members and help their group, no matter if it's absolutely required for the win or not. And healer roles in this game are designed to include strong DPS abilities, and the content is designed in a way that healers will only need to use limited time on healing and have a lot of free time to DPS.

I realize this, there was just a side conversation arising about a quote Yoshida made discussing whether or not healer DPS was required in the game's design, and the answer is that it wasn't. We seem to all be in agreement on this point.

[Nhisso]

Dear tanks that don't pop CDs, you suck
Dear DPS that don't AoE, you suck
Dear Healers that don't DPS, you suck.

/thread.

Yeah, but no.
Healers wasting mana on DPS EVERY time they arent healing are bad.
Im so sick of neckbeards crying about not being able to speed run every thing. We get it. You want to speed through content and get cool gear so noobs ask where you got it; and then complain about being bored because youve done every dungeon/raid/trial 15000 times.

[RuleofThree]

I just give up trying, honestly. Last night I DPS'd the shit out of a dungeon, and still got told I suck ass for not dpsing. The morale of this eternal argument: You can't win. You will always suck. Stop trying to please others.

[Cynfael]

Yeah, but no.
Healers wasting mana on DPS EVERY time they arent healing are bad.

Considering that there is no benefit to having unspent mana, it doesn't make sense to hoard it to the max.

Generally speaking, casting offensive spells while not healing is exactly what you want to be doing. You have to be seriously hurting for MP for some reason to have to stop casting.